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I've relieved to see him in Boston but man, fuck the Cavs for screwing this up. Kyrie would've had a few more years with the GOAT but they've chased him out which led to Kyrie wanting out.

Cavs beat Celtics in 6, Warriors beat Cavs in 6. Lebron leaves to go to LA with George. Boston selects Bagley or Bamba and has a dynasty for the next 5yrs.
 
I agree that Crowder will help the Cavs. I liked him a lot with the Celtics, he improved a hell of a lot over the years.
 
Celtics window is still about 5 years away unless the Warriors suffer catastrophic injuries. They are planning for that window and I'm sure they have no expectations that Tatum, Brown and Porter/Bagley/Doncic/Ayton/Bamba are going to be ready to challenge the Warriors core anytime soon. This is like the "would Kentucky beat the Sixers" question, but worse.

Kyrie's prime is much better timed with the Celtics than IT's prime was. Kyrie is 3 years younger. He'll be about 28-29 when the Celtics are ready to really push.
 
Tatum's window begins in 2 years. If his career tracks Carmelo Anthony, a randomly selected comparable player, he should start banging out elite seasons in 2020. I think Boston has smartly bought some time here, and I think they were right to value Tatum more than what's behind Door #1 (i.e., the Nets 2018 pick).
 
Cavs got a really good deal all things considered. Only thing I would worry about is the Cavs got a lot of core guys with a history of injuries. LeBron's the only one I wouldn't worry about injury wise.
 
Yeah, way too much focus on IT for Kyrie. The main thing the Cavs get out of this is 3 years of Jae Crowder, on a cheap ($7 million) deal, no less. He's instantly their second best 2-way player and their best asset other than the Nets' pick.

He's a 27-year-old, low-usage, high-efficiency, high-motor player who shot almost 40% from 3 and can guard the 2-4 positions quite well. That's pretty much exactly what the Cavs need.
 
Cavs got a really good deal all things considered. Only thing I would worry about is the Cavs got a lot of core guys with a history of injuries. LeBron's the only one I wouldn't worry about injury wise.

LeBron and (even though you guys hate him) Tristan never get hurt.
 
To be totally honest, I forgot the Celtics got Hayward. I don't think this changes anything. It's essentially Irving, Smart, Hayward, Horford and a few guys with high ceilings who aren't ready yet vs. Thomas, LeBron, Crowder, Love and a bunch of veterans with low ceilings who are much better right now than those Celtics not-ready guys. The finals matchup between either of them and the Warriors is depressing, though having a playable starting PF defensively against the death lineup, with Crowder instead of Love, makes the Cavs interesting.
 
Cavs got a really good deal all things considered. Only thing I would worry about is the Cavs got a lot of core guys with a history of injuries. LeBron's the only one I wouldn't worry about injury wise.

LeBron and (even though you guys hate him) Tristan never get hurt.

You're right about Tristan. For some reason I thought he had a history of knee issues too in addition to his thumb injury. My bad.
 
It's essentially Irving, Smart, Hayward, Horford and a few guys with high ceilings who aren't ready yet vs. Thomas, LeBron, Crowder, Love and a bunch of veterans with low ceilings who are much better right now than those Celtics not-ready guys. .

The Celtics seem like they could use a veteran or three at the minimum salary to flesh out their bench. Right now, guys 6-10 could be Smart, Tatum, Rozier, Baynes, and Larkin... and then it's guys like Semi Ojeleye.
 
Just realized that Crowder will be yet another "LeBron stopper" that he doesn't have to face in the playoffs, along with Butler and George.

Who TF is even the best wing defender LeBron could realistically face in the east? Tucker? Giannis? Winslow? Lol
 
I look forward to rooting for the Celtics again. I loved them when KG was there.

Will love it if they get passed Cleveland but I don't see that happens to be perfectly honest
Not next year. Too young, not enough size, and not enough defense. The year after depends on Lebron and who both teams draft with their probable top 5 picks.
The Celtics won't have a top 5 pick....
 
That's an incredible deal for the Cavs, given the circumstances, to stay as the best team in the East for one more season while also getting that ridiculous pick, which is all that will matter since they have no chance of beating the Warriors next season anyway.

But that's also a good deal for the Celtics, to finally turn all their 60-70 cent players into a dollar player in Irving. Thomas with a max contract is not an asset.

I disagree. Cavs certainly have a chance. They were basically 60 seconds away from being tied 2-2 last year.
Agreed it's a good deal for the Cavs in getting that 2018 pick and better defensively.
Don't like this move that much for the Celtics. They didn't get better than the Cavs and lost that pick, got worse defensively and have to resign KI in two years probably to a super max.

Unloading Thomas is a lot of value to the Celtics. They no longer are forced to sign him to a max deal. Thomas had negative value to anyone but a contender looking to go all-in for one season, so the Cavs were a miraculous savior to take Thomas off the Celtics' hands while still giving back value in return.

We will just have to disagree on the Cavs chances of beating the Warriors with Irving next season. The Warriors have only gotten better. The Cavs would've been the same or worse as last season.

Well I agree the Cavs got a deal here but I think losing KI is going to hurt more than IT helps.

I just think if the Cavs close out game four instead of completely mailing it in the last 70 seconds then it goes 7 games. That's a toss up.

I think the biggest question in this trade is whether Crowder can check Durant or Green?
 
Just realized that Crowder will be yet another "LeBron stopper" that he doesn't have to face in the playoffs, along with Butler and George.

Who TF is even the best wing defender LeBron could realistically face in the east? Tucker? Giannis? Winslow? Lol

In fairness, Crowder was much shittier at defending Bron in this year's playoffs than Brown was.

The bigger hole for the Celtics is really in rebounding/ rim-protecting.

If they can grab someone to fill those holes in the next draft, watch out world.

But, for this season, barring some incredible Stevens coaching genius D scheme, Celts just won't be able to stop the Cavs on the glass or the drive.
 
I really think the Celtics are better than the Cavs next season. IT isn't that good. He's certainly (imo) not as good as Kyrie when both are healthy. Kyrie has his flaws, but LeBron is going to miss Kyrie's elite level of getting buckets in tight post-season games.

I really think that the roster they have now assembled, along with having elite level coaching, that the Celtics are ahead of the Cavs. IT isn't as good as Kyrie. This deal is good for the Cavs long-term but I don't think it makes them any better next season. The Celtics added Kyrie Irving, Gordon Hayward, Jayson Tatum, Marcus Morris and Jaylen Brown should be improved enough to contribute next season.

The Celtics added a lot. The Cavs added nothing and swapped Kyrie Irving for IT.

The Cavaliers will have probably the #1 picks back to back seasons, but they will still be completely starting from scratch. That roster is about to completely implode. IT and LeBron are both leaving. Dan Gilbert is not well liked, and Cleveland isn't a desirable place to play. We will see what happens to Cleveland even with almost guaranteed back to back to 3 picks. It should be noted that before LeBron James they were shit, and after LeBron James they were shit. The only reason they won is because he returned- and he's going to leave again.

You're ignoring the single biggest thing in the trade for Cleveland which was getting Crowder. Crowder is a top 75 player in the league and one of the few true 3 and D players in the league that can check 2-4.

Secondly, Irving is better than Thomas, but it's not the difference you are making it to be. They're both legitimate All Stars. It's not like Thomas was scoring his points inefficiently.

Per 36
Irving 26 per game on 47% and 40% from 3 with 6.0 assists
Thomas 31 per game on 46% and 38% from 3 with 6.3 assists

Advanced
Irving usage 30.8
23.0 PER
.170 WS/48
2.5 BPM
Thomas usage 34.0
26.5 PER
.234 WS/48
5.4 BPM

Playoffs
Irving 26 and 5 on 47% shooting
Thomas 24 and 7 on 43% shooting

Both are awful defensively, Thomas is just probably the worst in the league instead of being like Irving as one of the worst.

Point being, Celtics upgraded, but it's not some sort of huge leap for the 2017-2018 season.


Lastly, for those touting Tatum. I could be wrong, but I find it hard to believe he will be much better than Jabari or Ingram were in their rookie seasons. Both of which were average players at best. Tatum posted some great numbers in the summer league, but a lot it was done in isolation on some high degree of difficulty shots. Shots he isn't going to be getting for the Celtics as a young player with Hayward and Irving on the roster.

Have the Celtics shrunk the gap between them and Cleveland, absolutely. As long as LeBron doesn't pull a 2010 playoffs where he's on his way out, then the Cavs are still a drastically better team than Boston in 2018.
 
I really think the Celtics are better than the Cavs next season. IT isn't that good. He's certainly (imo) not as good as Kyrie when both are healthy. Kyrie has his flaws, but LeBron is going to miss Kyrie's elite level of getting buckets in tight post-season games.

I really think that the roster they have now assembled, along with having elite level coaching, that the Celtics are ahead of the Cavs. IT isn't as good as Kyrie. This deal is good for the Cavs long-term but I don't think it makes them any better next season. The Celtics added Kyrie Irving, Gordon Hayward, Jayson Tatum, Marcus Morris and Jaylen Brown should be improved enough to contribute next season.

The Celtics added a lot. The Cavs added nothing and swapped Kyrie Irving for IT.

The Cavaliers will have probably the #1 picks back to back seasons, but they will still be completely starting from scratch. That roster is about to completely implode. IT and LeBron are both leaving. Dan Gilbert is not well liked, and Cleveland isn't a desirable place to play. We will see what happens to Cleveland even with almost guaranteed back to back to 3 picks. It should be noted that before LeBron James they were shit, and after LeBron James they were shit. The only reason they won is because he returned- and he's going to leave again.

You're ignoring the single biggest thing in the trade for Cleveland which was getting Crowder. Crowder is a top 75 player in the league and one of the few true 3 and D players in the league that can check 2-4.

Secondly, Irving is better than Thomas, but it's not the difference you are making it to be. They're both legitimate All Stars. It's not like Thomas was scoring his points inefficiently.

Per 36
Irving 26 per game on 47% and 40% from 3 with 6.0 assists
Thomas 31 per game on 46% and 38% from 3 with 6.3 assists

Advanced
Irving usage 30.8
23.0 PER
.170 WS/48
2.5 BPM
Thomas usage 34.0
26.5 PER
.234 WS/48
5.4 BPM

Playoffs
Irving 26 and 5 on 47% shooting
Thomas 24 and 7 on 43% shooting

Both are awful defensively, Thomas is just probably the worst in the league instead of being like Irving as one of the worst.

Point being, Celtics upgraded, but it's not some sort of huge leap for the 2017-2018 season.


Lastly, for those touting Tatum. I could be wrong, but I find it hard to believe he will be much better than Jabari or Ingram were in their rookie seasons. Both of which were average players at best. Tatum posted some great numbers in the summer league, but a lot it was done in isolation on some high degree of difficulty shots. Shots he isn't going to be getting for the Celtics as a young player with Hayward and Irving on the roster.

Have the Celtics shrunk the gap between them and Cleveland, absolutely. As long as LeBron doesn't pull a 2010 playoffs where he's on his way out, then the Cavs are still a drastically better team than Boston in 2018.

On Tatum w/ Ky and Hayward -- I actually think that, as long as Stevens is the teacher I think he is, I think both Tatum and Hayward can work incredibly well w/ Ky on PNR/PNP (and Morris and Horford will obviously be good on that front as well). In those scenarios, I truly think Tatum will have a much easier time getting much easier shots than he got in SL.

I have some guesses on how Stevens ends up running the offense this season, but I think the offense will be the least of the issues to be addressed -- I expect it'll be a top 6 offense.

No, the defense and rebounding will be the bigger concern. That being said, Stevens' basic tenets on defense (closing out on shooters, positioning appropriately w/ scheme, anticipation based on scouting) and rebounding (everybody puts a butt on a guy when the ball goes up, no matter where you are) can put them in good position vs most teams. The problem, as I said before, is the aggressive, leverage-utilizing rebounders like Love and TT, as well as the physical freaks like Bron who can just overpower and/or evade.

All that being said, I could see the Celts outscoring the Cavs as long as Bron gets passive enough (or if Father Time finally shows some cracks in him).

BTW, I know this will make some laugh, but I actually think that not only the Celts but also the Wiz could trip up the Cavs on their road to the finals. As a Kyrie fan, I had a lot more concern and worry about beating the Wiz than the Celts in this year's playoffs, and I think the Wiz stand more than a puncher's chance vs the Cavs.
 

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