Well, I loved the 2015 team. But there was also a good mix of experience and OADs on that team.

And I definitely don't want OADs to come at the expense of developing guys like Javin, who I think has real potential as a glue guy and versatile defender, or Vrank, who was good every time he stepped on the floor last year. Why recruit those guys if you're not really going to invest in them? It always seems to me like we're selling them a bill of goods.

To me the issue is Coach K just sucks at developing a bench. If Bagley were to commit to the 2017 class, he, Carter Jr and Bolden could get the bulk of the minutes and there would still be room for Javin and Vrank to get a combined 13-15mpg in ACC play. Of course, Bagley and Carter would each average 30mpg and Bolden gets the rest.

Vrankovic and Javin are both scholarship players- it pisses me off when these guys, who the staff thought were worthy enough to receive a scholarship, can't even get 5 minutes in ACC play. What was the point of even offering them then? I refuse to believe that on last season's team with Giles being so timid due to his knee, and Bolden being injured and just being terrible, that Vrankovic, a guy was solid defensively and rebounding, couldn't get in for 5-7 minutes a game in ACC play.

Coach K rides certain guys and certain line-ups too long. I don't think Coach K has many flaws as a coach, but his yearly lack of developing a bench pisses me off to no end. The ideal way to use a bench would be a cross between Coach K and Roy Williams, both are on extremely different ends in regards to bench development.

Yeah. I feel like four years of actual development of a guy like Javin would be more valuable than any single season of a OAD player. Instead we generally don't play our lower-ranked guys at all (unless they're guards) and then they transfer after their sophomore season.

If Bagley enrolls this year, there isn't another roster in the country I would choose over Duke's.

How K would manage the roster? That is another question altogether.

I feel like it's pretty imbalanced, even with Bagley. We'd have a deep frontcourt, a very thin and inexperienced backcourt, and not much shooting.

That description sounds like pretty much the opposite of K's ideal roster.

Bolden is the problem, as always. It's too bad that this Bagley talk didn't happen a few months ago. That way, Duke could not have credibly told Bolden that he is likely to start and perhaps Bolden would have pulled the trigger on a transfer or pro option.

Just hope K actually uses 2 bigs at a time this year if Bagley comes in.

He won't have any choice. He literally has three playable guards and no small forward (minus a freshman Tucker).

rome8180 said:

I feel like it's pretty imbalanced, even with Bagley. We'd have a deep frontcourt, a very thin and inexperienced backcourt, and not much shooting.

That description sounds like pretty much the opposite of K's ideal roster.

Click to expand...

While I agree that it is the opposite of Coach K's ideal roster, I would hope that the imbalance leads to a similar feeling of uncomfortable for Coach K. In 2010 when I believe Coach K was a tad bit uncomfortable with the makeup of the roster (good back court but no depth, and a big and deep front court) Coach K was forced to change and it worked. I've noticed a little bit that when Coach K gets his "ideal" roster, or at least close to it, he fucks it up by gaining tunnel vision and he loses all flexibility. With a roster that isn't ideal for him, I think/hope he will be more open minded because he will have to be.

Putting aside some of Coach K's stubborn tendencies, if we add Bagley, next year's team should be very good defensively. Just removing Coach K's style, if you look at it as just the pieces on the roster, Duval-Trent Jr-Allen-Carter Jr-Bagley and Bolden, DeLaurier, Tucker and maybe Goldwire shaping up the bench, that is a VERY athletic and long team that should be capable of switching a lot very effectively. I think a front-court of Carter Jr and Bagley defensively would be extremely disruptive, and that team should force a lot of turnovers, apply a lot of pressure, while also being able to rebound and protect the rim with the length and size of Carter/Bagley and the others off of the bench. With Duval running the point, and Trent Jr and Allen spotting up, the defensive pressure, deflections, turnovers, etc should lead to a lot of fastbreak opportunities for Duval and the shooters.

I rambled a bit there- but my point is that if Coach K adapts appropriately, next year's team should be a lot of fun and win a lot of games, and compete for a National Championship. If he gets tunnel visioned which he has the tendency to do, they will flame out again. But, I can't recall the last time Duke (if Bagley comes) had a front court like this.

While K adapted brilliantly in 2010, I would say this roster is more flawed than that one. There's more "talent" on this roster, but there's also a non-shooting PG and no small forward. 2010 had three good shooters (four if you count Dawkins) and a large small forward in Singler. They had an incredible amount of experience and were fully bought in. I know your point wasn't to say this team will be just like 2010 or anything, but I'm just pointing out why the flaws in this roster may be too large to overcome even with good adjustments.

As for the theory about K getting tunnel vision, I feel like 2013 was the ideal K roster and he did pretty well with that one. Probably would have won the title if not for Kelly's injury.

A big factor will be staying healthy, of course. Between 2010 and now we've had three healthy rosters. Two of those won titles, and one was the pure shitfest of 2014.

I expect a Wendell Carter foot injury within the first six weeks.

The hype for last year's frontcourt was just as high, if not higher, than the hype for this year's frontcourt, so if anyone doesn't remember having a frontcourt like this, before even seeing these players play an organized game together, then that person is choosing to forget just how dismal Duke's coaching can be.

RS SR Amile Jefferson (projected All-America)
FR Harry Giles (projected top 3 pick)
FR Marques Bolden (projected top 10 pick)

Early Entry FR Marvin Bagley (projected top 3 pick)*
FR Wendell Carter (projected top 10 pick)
SO Marques Bolden (projected asshole)

Last year's team was more talented and likely flat-out better than this year's team. Their ceiling was to be able to explode whenever they wanted to destroy a team as good as Louisville or UNC over the most critical stretch of a game. They reached that ceiling; we saw how good they could be when locked in and coached properly against any given opponent.

They allowed 65 points in one half to one of the worst offensive teams in the entire NCAA Tournament. To claim that this year's team will be better than that one must be partially due to not wanting to admit to ourselves that they will probably fail disastrously because of poor coaching and underdevelopment in the end.

* Note that this player is not even on Duke's team at the moment.

SeanMayTriedToEatMe said:

SO Marques Bolden (projected asshole)

Click to expand...

Can we make Pantone's title from now until Bolden leaves Duke be "Projected Asshole"?

Last year was such a massive disappointment. If K had been able to coach the defense well enough to allow a meager 57 points to South Carolina in the second half, we are a borderline shoo-in for the Final Four.

But enough about 2016-17. If we get Bagley, I'll be highly optimistic about this coming season, although I still have my doubts over how effectively K will manage the roster.

rome8180 said:

A big factor will be staying healthy, of course. Between 2010 and now we've had three healthy rosters. Two of those won titles, and one was the pure shitfest of 2014.

I expect a Wendell Carter foot injury within the first six weeks.

Click to expand...

"Aircast: The Official Shoe of Duke MBB!"

DukeNukem05 said:

Can we make Pantone's title from now until Bolden leaves Duke be "Projected Asshole"?

Click to expand...

I found him an avatar too.

rome8180 said:

I found him an avatar too.

Click to expand...

To be fair to Pantone, most of us were annoyed with the Bolden add largely because it was going to hinder the playing time of budding Duke basketball great, Chase Jeter.

Trent ' s shot selection will make y'all forget about Bolden for awhile.

Come to Duke, bags.