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Yup. And Americans own 68% of the debt.

Second, I don't know if we can say that. It's pretty clear that Trump is out of his league and Kim Jong Un is owning him.
 
Everything Un is doing is in response to Trump acting like an idiot. They are all laughing at us. Today, Trump says that maybe we will stop all trade with anyone that trades with NK. America First, my ass.
 
Trump is clearly out of his league. Kim Jong Un is actively trying to ramp up to destroy an entire nation. This is the same guy that tells his people that he is the best golfer in the world and that North Korea has won the last few Olympics. If by Kim Jon Un owning him you mean he has continued to do exactly what he was doing during the Obama administration and what his father did during the previous administrations then you are exactly right.


Edit to add for your most recent post: You don't really believe that? Un would be doing this regardless if Trump was a dumbass or not. He is fucking crazy! His dad was fucking crazy. Trump is an idiot..we all agree to this. Un would be trying to kill us whether Trump or Hillary was in office.
 
It seems to be an impossible cat and mouse dilemma that's admittedly far above my head. Never had interest in international affairs. Seems that the three options are:

1. Proactive military action, up to and including nuclear strike that ends North Korea. Worst case is China goes to war against us and everything is just fucked. Not as bad as that but still very bad is a caged-in North Korea sends nukes to Tokyo, Seoul and others, wiping out some of the greatest cities in the world before North Korea is fully ended. Realistic consequence is China realizes it is idiotic to go to war with the US over some insane asshole, so they don't do that, and North Korea just does some heavy damage to South Korea only before the end.

2. Proactive economic action, up to and including barring trade with China. Worst case is China doesn't mind this enough and North Korea continues to advance to the point of having full nuke capabilities anyway, so America fucks itself for no benefit. Realistic consequence is China starves North Korea, but then North Korea feels desperate and nukes shit like in scenario 1 above, which quickly leads to their end, but not before massive damage is done.

3. Do nothing. Allows North Korea to develop nuke capabilities on par with other developed nations. Hope that their own destruction is enough disincentive to ever use the nukes.

I think 2 or 3 are fine. I don't think China destroys the world economy just to stick up for North Korea. I don't think North Korea ever moves first to nuke anyone. Selfishly, with no regard for human life, I kind of hope they nuke a small area of Japan or South Korea, intentionally or unintentionally, so that this can all be over with no other consequences.
 
Once a country has a nuclear bomb, not sure threatening war is the best way to act. NK has had a nuclear weapon since 2006. Un is not trying to ramp up to destroy any nations. He is pushing Trump's buttons (like he did to other administrations). Problem is Trump is reacting on twitter like my 7 year old would. Frankly, it's embarrassing and dangerous.
 
I do agree with you that China doesn't risk anything over North Korea. I do think NK is crazy enough to fire upon Guam, Japan, SK simply because they think they are above everyone. That falls into the Un is crazy as shit. China stepping in a bitch slapping NK would fix all of this but the only way I see them doing that is if they really thought we were going to go to war with NK.
 
Best case: North Korea missile test is a bit off the mark, ends up hitting close enough to Japan, South Korea or some random island to kill a few dozen people on the coast. A few minutes later, they are wiped out with no disagreement from any other nation.
 
aiw said:
Once a country has a nuclear bomb, not sure threatening war is the best way to act. NK has had a nuclear weapon since 2006. Un is not trying to ramp up to destroy any nations. He is pushing Trump's buttons (like he did to other administrations). Problem is Trump is reacting on twitter like my 7 year old would. Frankly, it's embarrassing and dangerous.
Click to expand...

Ok, I think we can all agree that Trump is a 12 year old and needs to be banned from social media. Un is doing much more than he has in the past and much more than his dad ever did. At what point do we take him serious? At what point do we say enough is enough? Sanctions and rhetoric seem to have done so well thus far. When a leader gauges his defensive prowess by how far into the US he can reach with missiles and nuclear warheads you might want to take him just a little serious right?
 
If Un is crazy enough to bomb Guam, Japan, SK, then he doesn't care what China thinks because his country will be gone anyway. They don't think they're above anyone. It's small penis syndrome (kinda like what's going on in this country now). It's bluster with a weapon to back it up.
 
Thain said:
aiw said:
Once a country has a nuclear bomb, not sure threatening war is the best way to act. NK has had a nuclear weapon since 2006. Un is not trying to ramp up to destroy any nations. He is pushing Trump's buttons (like he did to other administrations). Problem is Trump is reacting on twitter like my 7 year old would. Frankly, it's embarrassing and dangerous.
Click to expand...

Ok, I think we can all agree that Trump is a 12 year old and needs to be banned from social media. Un is doing much more than he has in the past and much more than his dad ever did. At what point do we take him serious? At what point do we say enough is enough? Sanctions and rhetoric seem to have done so well thus far. When a leader gauges his defensive prowess by how far into the US he can reach with missiles and nuclear warheads you might want to take him just a little serious right?
Click to expand...

I honestly think NK is ramping things up because we are egging them on. Just my opinion.
 
Obama's jokes about Trump at that White House dinner several years ago leads to Trump as President. That Seth Rogen/James Franco movie about Kim leads to Kim advancing North Korea to this point of no return state. Don't make fun of narcissistic lunatics with power.
 
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aiw said:
If Un is crazy enough to bomb Guam, Japan, SK, then he doesn't care what China thinks because his country will be gone anyway. They don't think they're above anyone. It's small penis syndrome (kinda like what's going on in this country now). It's bluster with a weapon to back it up.
Click to expand...

Maybe but are you willing to take that chance? Maybe it is small penis syndrome and maybe it is a crazy guy determined to prove everyone wrong. What if Hitler existed today and he outright said I am going to cage the jewish and then torture, gas and run tests on them. Would you think he was just saber rattling or would you take him serious?
 
So many people in Seoul will die just from conventional weapons should violence begin. I always wanted to visit Seoul but have no interest in doing so any time soon with Trump and Un's penis measuring contest.
 
I don't think he's as crazy as you do. I think he's been playing us for years. It's a power trip, BUT we are exacerbating things.

Just shut your fucking mouth (not you, Thain) and do behind the scenes work. Don't threaten NK AND threaten to pull out of a trade agreement with SK at the same time. So dumb.
 
That's the thing. This isn't a Trump vs. Un thing. It's an il vs clinton, il vs bush, un vs bush, un vs obama and now un vs trump thing. This bullshit has been ramping up for years.
 
The reason I don't think Un will do anything is simply because if he attacks, he's done for. There's no way they win especially if they're the ones proactively attacking. Rationally, he wants to stay in power and alive. If he didn't, he wouldn't have killed so many of his top people that he thought were plotting against him. So if we assume he wants to live, there's no logic in him starting a nuclear war that he will not win. He is showing his people that he is relevant and that North Korea is relevant on the world stage. I'd be stunned if it got further than test firing some missiles.
 
Thain said:
That's the thing. This isn't a Trump vs. Un thing. It's an il vs clinton, il vs bush, un vs bush, un vs obama and now un vs trump thing. This bullshit has been ramping up for years.
Click to expand...
Correct, but currently, Trump holds the nuclear codes.
 
aiw said:
I don't think he's as crazy as you do. I think he's been playing us for years. It's a power trip, BUT we are exacerbating things.

Just shut your fucking mouth (not you, Thain) and do behind the scenes work. Don't threaten NK AND threaten to pull out of a trade agreement with SK at the same time. So dumb.
Click to expand...

I could see that. Maybe it's a saving face thing where he doesn't want us threatening NK. What does he want though? When at every turn all you talk about is building your nuclear arsenal and firing missiles over US allies you are asking to be dealt with on some level.
 
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