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College football (non-Duke)

DrKlahn said:
It's gonna be a different story when Maryland is over there. I mean it's gonna be very very similar, just not identical.
One thing to keep in mind that Ohio and Penn State were not available which shifted the bowl match-ups. Although the Big Ten didn't win as many games as it wanted, the conference showed that the SEC is not head-and-shoulders above the Big Ten.

- A 8-4 Michigan team had a 10-2 USC team nearly beat.
- A 10-3 Nebraska team played evenly for 3 quarters against a 11-2 Georgia team that was 5 yards away from playing for the MNC.
- A 7-5 Wisconsin team played evenly for 3.5 quarters against a 11-2 Stanford team.
- A 9-2 Northwestern team beat a 8-4 Mississippi team by 2 touchdowns.
- A 6-6 Minnesota played well for 57 minutes against a 7-5 Texas Tech team but lost the game in the final 3 minutes.

Lastly, keep in mind that the ESPN resents the Big Ten for (1) have the balls to start its own network and (2) partnering with FOX. Given that ESPN sees the BTN as a competitor, ESPN has no incentive to talk up the Big Ten or be fair to it.

So long as Michigan, Nebraska, Ohio, Penn State and maybe WIsconsin have good/great coaches and are recruiting well, they will be able to compete against the top teams of any conference. Michigan and Ohio are recruiting at a high level. Penn State is persevering in spite of sanctions. The problem is Nebraska because they are struggling in recruiting.

And as more Big Ten teams continue to add elements of the spread to the power running, the will become better. The Big Ten has been stubbornly resistant to change at times.
 
Generally, teams that are "close" play well for long stretches before the depth and size and athleticism of a superior opponent wears them down. It's exactly what you would expect from teams that are game and talented but not good enough to win against top competition. That's the B1G this year.

The SEC is "down" and still have 6 of the 10 best teams in the country. In fact, I would argue that Alabama, Florida and Georgia would finish 1-2-3 in every conference in the country.

The B1G gets worse by adding Maryland.
 
Can't believe how well Louisville is playing tonight.
 
Louisville looks like a fantastic pickup for both football and basketball, hell of an impressive performance so far tonight.
 
rhfarmer said:
Generally, teams that are "close" play well for long stretches before the depth and size and athleticism of a superior opponent wears them down. It's exactly what you would expect from teams that are game and talented but not good enough to win against top competition. That's the B1G this year.

The SEC is "down" and still have 6 of the 10 best teams in the country. In fact, I would argue that Alabama, Florida and Georgia would finish 1-2-3 in every conference in the country.

The B1G gets worse by adding Maryland.
Explain to me why the SEC is "down" this year. I've seen/heard folks repeat it but no one has been able to tell me why this is true.

And I think Louisville showed the nation tonight that perhaps the SEC was a bit overrated. No matter how much horsecrap Kirk Herbstreit spews about Florida not being interested in this game, it doesn't change that Louisville dominated mighty Florida from start to finish. This the same Florida team that defeated #4 LSU, #7 USCeast, #10 FSU and this is the same Louisville team that didn't have a win against a single ranked opponent until tonight.

In fact, Herbstreit's line is garbage. How can a BCS team not be interested in a BCS Bowl? How can a team not be excited to finish top-5? How can a team not be excited about earning a high ranking for a potential title run next season? If anything, Florida should feel fortunate to be at the Sugar Bowl given that Georgia should be the SEC representative at this game.

---

And as the coaching and recruiting improves in the Big Ten, the gap between the top teams of the SEC and the top teams of the B1G will get smaller. No one really cares about the other bowl games. Those are just marginal points of discussion.

For instance, we added Maryland and Rutgers to be punching bags. What we really wanted was (1) access to their geographic markets and (2) the talent-rich areas in those places. We're happy they obliged. Remains to be seen if we'll sucker GT into joining our conference.
 
CK86 said:
Louisville looks like a fantastic pickup for both football and basketball, hell of an impressive performance so far tonight.
So long as Charlie Strong stays at Louisville, the program should do well.

However, the best and most valuable player on Louisville is Teddy Bridgewater. He elevates that team from good to great.

If LSU had been smart, they would've offered him at QB and not WR. LSU is a great QB away from being dominant. But Les Miles might finally have what he desperately wants in Anthony Jennings (2013 QB LSU commit from Georgia).
 
WorldStar HipHop said:
rhfarmer said:
Generally, teams that are "close" play well for long stretches before the depth and size and athleticism of a superior opponent wears them down. It's exactly what you would expect from teams that are game and talented but not good enough to win against top competition. That's the B1G this year.

The SEC is "down" and still have 6 of the 10 best teams in the country. In fact, I would argue that Alabama, Florida and Georgia would finish 1-2-3 in every conference in the country.

The B1G gets worse by adding Maryland.
Explain to me why the SEC is "down" this year. I've seen/heard folks repeat it but no one has been able to tell me why this is true.

And I think Louisville showed the nation tonight that perhaps the SEC was a bit overrated. No matter how much horsecrap Kirk Herbstreit spews about Florida not being interested in this game, it doesn't change that Louisville dominated mighty Florida from start to finish. This the same Florida team that defeated #4 LSU, #7 USCeast, #10 FSU and this is the same Louisville team that didn't have a win against a single ranked opponent until tonight.

In fact, Herbstreit's line is garbage. How can a BCS team not be interested in a BCS Bowl? How can a team not be excited to finish top-5? How can a team not be excited about earning a high ranking for a potential title run next season? If anything, Florida should feel fortunate to be at the Sugar Bowl given that Georgia should be the SEC representative at this game.

---

And as the coaching and recruiting improves in the Big Ten, the gap between the top teams of the SEC and the top teams of the B1G will get smaller. No one really cares about the other bowl games. Those are just marginal points of discussion.

For instance, we added Maryland and Rutgers to be punching bags. What we really wanted was (1) access to their geographic markets and (2) the talent-rich areas in those places. We're happy they obliged. Remains to be seen if we'll sucker GT into joining our conference.

I'm just going to say this. You may be convinced that the Big10 is poised for greatness, but the former coach of Wisconsin sure isn't. Why would you leave a guaranteed Bowl game at Wisconsin to go coach at the 6th or 7th best football school in the SEC?

I do not have a dog in the conference bragging rights fight because I'm a Duke fan, but from an outside perspective, the B1G added Maryland and Rutgers, and the SEC added Texas A&M. That's all you really have to know. B1G adds "punching bags", SEC adds one of the toughest programs from the Big 12 and a historical football power from a football state that has high school stadiums bigger than Maryland's.
 
The SEC East was okay this year but the West has almost nothing to show for itself out of conference. Wins over Michigan and Washington, that's it. Okay, Tulsa.
 
I wasn't going to go into the SEC's relative strength or weaknesses this year (because there are a number of reasons) because I feel like World Star is definitely a fan of the B1G in the same way that most of us here are "fans" of the ACC. Like, I've been ignoring the evidence of the ACC's football weakness for years (not that the B1G is weak in football, it most certainly is not).

WSHH, the B1G is arguably the second best FBS conference. That's awesome. They had/are having a great year. But they choked in the bowls, and it sucks that OSU wasn't eligible for a bowl, but that's what happens when you cheat, unless you are really good at it , like Auburn.

But there is not a ton of evidence to suggest that the B1G is ready to usurp the SEC as the best football conference. The SEC finally paid for a bad coaching hire (Auburn), lost a great coach (Meyer), lost a great coach who was a train wreck (Petrino), lost a potential Heisman candidate (Honey Badger) in a terrible year for Heisman candidates. These are just things off the top of my head that affected the SEC because I don't even follow the SEC out of watching a few minutes of their games every year. From what I saw, the SEC was not nearly as talented, particularly on offense, as they have been the last 5-6 years.

So yeah, Florida shit the bed. And Clemson had a miracle win over LSU. But for the most part, unless Notre Dame beats Bama, it's business as usual for the SEC.
 
This hasn't been a conversation for years. The SEC fields the best teams because they routinely bring in better talent. Their schools allow more lousy "student" athletes in, and they are also rumored to cheat more than most other schools.
 
All of that is true. But it's okay to observe when they're in a down year.
 
rhfarmer, I think the SEC is the best conference. I just think that the gap between the SEC and other conferences has been overblown. I would recommend reading the following article. It's long but worth it. The author does a fantastic job of breaking things down piece by piece. AFAIK, no has yet successfully provided a good rebuttal.

And this year's regular season + bowl season only reiterates what he wrote. This was published on August 13 of 2012.

---

Why SEC Isn't As Great In Football As You Think
Written by: Chuck Thompson

Is the SEC really the best conference in college football "top to bottom," as it's so often described? And if it is, why since the start of the BCS era in 1998 does the conference have overall losing records against the Pac-12 (11-12) and Big East (19-23) and superior but not dominating records against other major conferences? Might the nationwide perception of SEC superiority simply be part of a well-constructed ESPN business plan meant to protect and enhance the network’s $2.25 billion partnership with the SEC? As part of his admittedly left-coast-leaning inspection of myths and misconceptions about the South, author Chuck Thompson dug out the numbers and facts in devoting an entire chapter to Southern football amid critiques of religion, politics, education and racism in his new book Better Off Without 'Em: A Northern Manifesto for Southern Secession (Simon & Schuster). Here's an excerpt:


In his seminal work, The Burden of Southern History, historian C. Vann Woodward wrote: "The South has had its full share of illusions, fantasies, and pretensions, and it has continued to cling to some of them with an astonishing tenacity that defies explanation."

Few enduring southern delusions do more to illustrate Woodward's point than the region's storied devotion to college football and the myth of the superiority of the SEC, the twelve teams collectively regarded in the South -- and much of the rest of the country -- as whales to krill, The Beatles to Herman's Hermits, jackhammer sex with Mila Kunis to dry humping your junior prom date standing up in her parents' garage.

Claims to SEC superiority are based on a simple set of arguments, foremost of which is that of the 14 national championships awarded since the 1998 advent of the BCS system, eight have gone to teams from the SEC, including, remarkably, the last six in a row.

Yet SEC dominance is a very recent phenomenon.

Since the inception of the BCS, the SEC has been crowned national champion 57.14 percent of the time. That's a stunning turnaround when compared with an undisputed national title rate of 10.42 percent over the half-century prior.

So what's behind such a radical shift in fortune, such a statistical improbability?

It certainly isn't on-field performance. Judging by inter-conference records -- that is to say actual games as opposed to media guesswork and bestowed rankings -- the SEC plays other BCS conferences about equally. Witness the record since the start of the BCS era in 1998:

SEC vs. PAC-12 regular season: 10-12
SEC vs. PAC-12 bowl games: 1-0
SEC vs. Big 12 regular season: 6-10
SEC vs. Big 12 bowl games: 21-8
SEC vs. ACC regular season: 42-36
SEC vs. ACC bowl games: 16-9
SEC vs. Big 10 regular season: 7-4
SEC vs. Big 10 bowl games: 19-19
SEC vs. Big East regular season: 16-15
SEC vs. Big East bowl game: 3-8

The record is clear. In head-to-head match-ups against other major conferences, the SEC has either a combined losing record or one that's generally only a little better than even.

To SEC apologists who claim that the SEC's overall winning records in bowl games is evidence of success in "games that matter" against "quality opponents," I offer the counter-argument that because bowl game pairings are more easily manipulated than regular-season games, and because SEC teams frequently play in bowls near home stadiums, they often result in more favorable match-ups for SEC teams.

This tilt renders postseason play a less valid measure of strength than the more random sampling of results produced by regular season games.

In 2012, for instance, the SEC was able to even its BCS bowl record against the Big Ten at 19-19 when the Florida Gators beat Ohio State in the none-too-partisan Gator Bowl. The game was played in Jacksonville. No bowl games are played in Ohio.

So, if the SEC plays other conferences about even, why do SEC teams keep winning national championships?

That answer, of course, is the BCS and its corporate underwriters, who have created a reliable business model for determining national champions that is in all respects a self-fulfilling prophecy designed to protect its primary investment.

The BCS business plan works like this: preseason rankings typically include two, three, or four SEC teams among the nation's top ten, more than from any other conference. From the outset, this bias for SEC teams builds into the system a near insurmountable advantage.

Start the season with two of the top four teams being from the SEC, as was the case in 2010 with Alabama and Florida, and in 2011 with Alabama and LSU, and the conference is virtually guaranteed to be represented in the title game -- and this is an important point -- even if neither of those two schools end up winning the conference.

To be the best, so goes to the old sports adage, you've got to beat the best. But since only SEC teams are consistently declared the best, only SEC teams get the chance to prove themselves against "the best."

It's a chicken-or-the-egg situation. Does the SEC get favorable rankings because it's so good? Or is the SEC so good because it gets favorable rankings? I argue for the latter.

In 2010, for example, the Auburn Tigers began the season with a consensus ranking of #23, behind SEC rivals Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, and Georgia. The only way a team regarded so lightly early in the season can possibly climb into the national championship game -- which Auburn did that year -- is to beat a slew of highly ranked opponents, which Auburn also did that year. Because polls are arranged from the outset so that SEC teams will face the most highly ranked opponents over the course of a season, only teams from the SEC are time and again able to manage this feat.

Consider again that the BCS was created by then-SEC commissioner Roy Kramer, also known as the "godfather of the BCS," a man who "attached plastic explosives to college football" and blew it up, according to an ESPN web post. ESPN, of course, is the commercial entity that dominates the college football landscape, and which has a near incalculable economic interest in promoting the nationwide perception of the SEC's elite status.

Actually, you can calculate that interest.

In 2008, ESPN and the SEC signed that a 15-year, $2.25 billion agreement allowing the network to televise the conference's games. In addition, ESPN owns the rights to televise all BCS games, including the national championship game.

In 2011-2012, ESPN and its partner ABC broadcast thirty-three of the thirty-five college bowl games. Which is to say that for all intents and purposes ESPN, a subsidiary of the Walt Disney Company, the most successful spinner of dreams and fables in world history, owns college football as a commercial entity.

Because ESPN essentially owns college football, the SEC agenda it pushes invariably sets the tone followed by other media. In February 2011, more than half a year before the start of the football season, ESPN placed three southern teams in its top-five ranking for 2011 and published an Internet story beneath the headline, "SEC teams dominate early look at 2011." The story referred to the rankings as though they were the result of some organic process.

A more honest headline would have been: "We've invested $2.25 billion in the SEC and we've decided to tell you, yet again, that SEC teams will dominate college football. Surprised?"

Here's how the self-fulfilling BCS prophecy breaks down in the SEC's favor over the course of a season. The preseason top twenty-five is stocked with the usual high-profile teams from across the country -- teams, not coincidentally, already scheduled for heavy broadcast exposure. Thanks to its gaudy TV contracts, many of these ranked teams come from the SEC.

Once the season is underway, if a highly ranked SEC team beats another highly ranked SEC team, the winner rises higher in the polls than it might normally, based on the fact that it's just beaten a "top-tier" team from the country's "elite" conference. By the same coin, the losing SEC team in this scenario doesn't drop as far as it might otherwise, since, after all, it has lost to a presumably powerful "top-tier" team from the country's "elite" conference.

When "good" SEC teams suffer losses in league play, this allegedly proves how tough the SEC is from top to bottom. If an SEC leader wins all of its league games, this allegedly proves how great that team is, given that it somehow managed to go undefeated against a monster SEC schedule -- ignored is the fact that SEC teams have pulled off this putative miracle for the last four straight seasons.

For God's sake, it's tougher to go undefeated in the Colonial Athletic Association than it is in the SEC.
If the same things happen in other conferences, however, the collective football media reverse the logic, claiming that if, say, a Mountain West Conference league leader loses to a lower-ranked Mountain West team, this merely proves how bad that losing team is, not how good the Mountain West is. In the same way, if a league leader goes undefeated in the Mountain West, the feat is said to merely demonstrate how weak the conference is, not accepted as proof of the strength of the unbeaten team.

Though its teams are rarely given the opportunity, the Mountain West, not the SEC, has the highest winning percentage of any conference in BCS bowl games (.750), even though its teams travel further to play in BCS games than just about any others and with fewer supporting fans.

The double standard also allows non-conference victories rolled up by "champions" such as the 2009 Alabama Crimson Tide against the likes of Florida International, North Texas, and Tennessee-Chattanooga to be regarded as evidence of gridiron distinction by those inside the solipsistic cocoon of the self-congratulatory SEC echo chamber.

As though empirical evidence is akin to fossil records and climate change data, it's as if no one in the evangelical South is capable of copping to the evidence at hand. In the 2010-11 bowl season, for instance, the SEC posted a .500 record (5-5), same as the then Pac-10 and MAC, slightly worse than the Big East (4-2), and slightly better than the ACC (4-5). Those results moved the wonks at statistical aggregator SportsRatings to report, "In the end, no conference really dominated the bowl season, with most leagues overperforming [Big Ten] or underperforming [SEC] only marginally against expectations."

Despite this underwhelming performance, however, the 2011 preseason table was set up once again to facilitate an SEC title run based on an utterly manufactured and bogus perception of strength.

The chicanery is only getting worse. The most bald-faced example of poll rigging occurred in 2011 when the Pac-12's then number-three-ranked Oregon Ducks lost a September game in Dallas to then number-four-ranked LSU by a score of 40-27. Following the defeat, the Ducks dropped 10 spaces in the polls, to number 13.

With the demotion, Oregon's championship hopes were essentially obliterated from the first week of the season.

Fine. This is the way it goes in a college football's "every game counts" season.

When the SEC's then #2 Alabama Crimson Tide lost at home to #1 LSU in November, however, it dropped only one space in the polls, to number three.

I was in the stadium for that 2011 alleged "game of the century" between LSU and Alabama, traveling to Tuscaloosa and paying out the ass for a scalped ticket because I was eager to see how mighty legends of the SEC take care of business at home.

It turned out to be a tough night for Alabama fans. The home team eked out only two field goals while converting on just three of eleven third-down opportunities and passing for a Pee Wee football-style 91 yards on nine total completions.

While LSU fans celebrated their 9-6 win in The Houndstooth Sports Bar after the game, I watched as pundits on ESPN went right to work setting up expectations of an LSU-Alabama title game rematch, virtually ignoring the Tide's dismal performance. The original "E" in ESPN stood for "entertainment," after all. Sports have always been a secondary concern.

Within two weeks, just-beaten Alabama had been scooted back up to number two behind top-ranked LSU, and yet another SEC team (Arkansas) had been quickly installed at number three, thus ensuring that no matter what happened next, the SEC would be guaranteed a national title. The system of propaganda reached its torrid, circle-jerk climax with the 2012 BCS title game between LSU and Alabama.

Computer programmers have a term for formulas that rely on flawed or biased original data: GIGO. Garbage in, garbage out. Relying as it does on a garbage premise from the get-go, the entire BCS formula is incapable of producing anything other than garbage results. This will become even more true, not less so, with the additional variables introduced by a four-team playoff.

My overall argument here is not that the SEC sucks. Clearly, it does not.

My argument is simply that if you look at results on the field -- not guesswork from writers, network suits, and BCS computers -- teams from the major conferences, and some schools from smaller conferences, are actually a lot more evenly matched than most fans believe.

Despite being approximately equal to other conferences in most quantifiable categories, the SEC and other southern schools are unfairly presented with championship opportunities and favors on what is far from a level playing field.

The SEC is better than other conferences at media manipulation and pretending that fiction is fact and fact is fiction. But as a top-to-bottom conference it is not better at football. The numbers bear that out.
 
Decent article that you posted WSHH, and I have read it before, but as a fan of the SEC and a life long Auburn fan i feel like there are a few things that the author conveniently left out.

Keep in mind that the strength of the SEC is not based on the entire conference, it is based on the top 5 or 6 teams in the conference which have some pretty strong history. These teams in no particular order are Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Florida and Georgia. Arkansas had some good years under Nutt and Petrino. Miss. State has been to one SEC championship in 20 years. Tennessee was good in the late 90's but after Peyton and Tee left, UT has had little to no impact on the SEC. South Carolina's rise to top tier program is extremely new. The other teams I left out arent worth mentioning.

Basically, the SEC is a 5 team conference with a couple additions to the top 5. There are also years where the team from these top 5 is not in it (see Auburn this year). The reason why the SEC is the best conference in the country is because of the 5 teams i have mentioned. Sure the guys article calls out records, and preseason rankings blah blah blah, however show me the records of these 5 teams against out of conference opponents.

Simply put, the SEC may not be the best conference from top to bottom, but year in and year out they do have the most consistent teams which recruit better than everyone else and win. Be angry about the SEC now, but remember not too long ago Michigan and Ohio State along with the big 10 were on top of the mountain.
 
Bill O'Brien tempted, but does not jump to the Browns
 
Yeah, I agree with the overall premise that polls are stupid and that the BCS is flawed, but I don't see how a writer can claim that ESPN is manipulating how the pollsters would vote, because that is what would have to happen in order for the conspiracy to actually work.

These things tend to be cyclical, so once Maryland joins the B1G they can help the B1G back to the top of the mountain.
 
Oregon just scored a 1-pt safety. That's a rule I never knew until tonight.

Oregon was kicking a PAT. KState blocked it. KState picked up the ball just outside of the endzone and was attempting to run it back for 2. The KState player lateraled the ball back into the endzone where another KState guy was tackled. Since they picked up the ball outside of the endzone and went back into the endzone before being tackled, the result of the play is a 1-point safety. And Ron Cherry, the ref who brought us, "Giving him the business," started his explanation with, "We have an unusual ruling." lol
 
physicsfactor said:
Oregon just scored a 1-pt safety. That's a rule I never knew until tonight.

Oregon was kicking a PAT. KState blocked it. KState picked up the ball just outside of the endzone and was attempting to run it back for 2. The KState player lateraled the ball back into the endzone where another KState guy was tackled. Since they picked up the ball outside of the endzone and went back into the endzone before being tackled, the result of the play is a 1-point safety. And Ron Cherry, the ref who brought us, "Giving him the business," started his explanation with, "We have an unusual ruling." lol
Yeah, that was good stuff with a Cherry on top.
 
So corny. Was in the process of writing "and Ron Cherry to top it off!" because he's so awesome... then it just had to write itself.
 
It's kind of crazy that that play has happened twice in NCAA history, and neither of them was the decisive point in a Duke-Wake game.
 

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