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Player R.J. Barrett

I know this is blasphemy, but I'm not convinced Barrett's ceiling is as high as it's thought to be.

I still think he's a top 2-3 player in his class, I'm just not sure how much he's going to stand out vs. ACC and NBA athletes. At 6'6.5" in shoes and not too bulky, he's more of an NBA 2/3 size than 3/4, and while he's a good athlete, he doesn't seem like a freak, and seems like a good-but-not-great ballhandler and shooter.

His best quality seems like it might be his motor and competitiveness, so he maybe he's more likely to max out his natural skillset than some other guys. But on paper, that all seems to add up to a versatile, solid all-around player who is very good in all areas but not necessarily great in any single one.

I'd take a slighter, more polished Winslow any day, but I can't help but wonder if he's still going to look like this transcendent superstar when he starts regularly going against NBA caliber athletes.
 
Barrett reminds of of Shabazz Muhammad and he's about maxed out his NBA potential IMO.

I don't see a superstar in Barrett.
 
Barrett is slight now, but he has a frame which will definitely put on muscle and size. He doesn't have an Ingram like frame. Barrett is going to get a lot stronger.

Also- I don't think the Shabazz Muhammad comparison makes much sense. Just because they're both skillful lefties that can play the 2/3 doesn't it a fair comparison. I think Barrett is a little bit more bouncy than Muhammad. He's a better overall athlete, quicker feet, and plays light. One massive difference between the two, is Barrett is a much great competitor than Muhammad. Barrett is probably around 190lbs right now, but he's doing a nice job keeping himself in good basketball condition. The added muscle will come as he gets older and is put on a college/NBA nutrition plan where they are giving him the food he needs to eat and just matures into his body more. Muhammad entered the 2013 draft combine at a fucking fat 222lbs. Even in HS he was never a guy that took great care of himself that reflects poorly on his overall competitiveness, IMO.

I like Barrett a lot. His handles suck, but with Tre Jones it's not a big as he won't have to be ball dominant. This will also allow him and Reddish to co-exist since Reddish likes the ball in his hands. But, Barrett's handles have gotten better since this past year. He has a lot of work to do but he's putting in the effort to get there- and he probably has the absolute best coaching of anyone in high school basketball in the world. His high school coach is Kevin Boyle, and his Canadian coach is Roy Rana, and both are just tremendous coaches.

I don't like the Muhammad comparison because I think Barrett is a lot better. But, let's just say Barrett is only as good as Muhammad, would that be a bad thing? At UCLA, Muhammad averaged 17.9, 71% FT, 37% 3PT. If Barrett is a clone of Muhammad, I think we would all be pleased considering Barrett would be surrounded by more talent, a much better PG than Larry fucking Drew, and in a system which has showcased wing players for years. His numbers would likely be more efficient, and his competitiveness and high motor would provide a defensive intensity much greater than Muhammad ever did in college. If (he's not) clones Muhammad in college, than I think we would be looking at 14-15ppg (more efficient than Muhammad) with a much higher motor on defense and on the glass- but I think he's better than that and his overall impact will be reflected as such.

If he corrals that handle a little bit, he'll be the best overall wing player IMO Duke has had in the one and done era. he's elite and will fit perfectly in Duke's offensive system. I also anticipate him to be an elite finisher at the rim once he puts on more strength, both upper body to get through contact and lower body for explosion. He has good length which helps him in that department, but he has a skillful length with a nice touch and feel for the ball, unlike Bamba for example. If for some reason he doesn't put on more strength, he'll still be a very good finisher around the rim.

fwiw I don't think his handle is necessarily awful. it just needs to tighten up- but his skillset as currently is because it allows him to really play off ball well, and he's been so damn well coached that he's totally comfortable and even excels at playing off ball. He's pretty high IQ in reading the defense. He's very comfortable in high ball screens despite his average handles and does a nice job getting himself open off of screens. He usually doesn't force, takes what the defense gives him.
 
Pantone287 said:
I know this is blasphemy, but I'm not convinced Barrett's ceiling is as high as it's thought to be.

I still think he's a top 2-3 player in his class, I'm just not sure how much he's going to stand out vs. ACC and NBA athletes. At 6'6.5" in shoes and not too bulky, he's more of an NBA 2/3 size than 3/4, and while he's a good athlete, he doesn't seem like a freak, and seems like a good-but-not-great ballhandler and shooter.

His best quality seems like it might be his motor and competitiveness, so he maybe he's more likely to max out his natural skillset than some other guys. But on paper, that all seems to add up to a versatile, solid all-around player who is very good in all areas but not necessarily great in any single one.

I'd take a slighter, more polished Winslow any day, but I can't help but wonder if he's still going to look like this transcendent superstar when he starts regularly going against NBA caliber athletes.
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Yeah, that's my perception of Barrett as well. I have a visceral feeling that even though he's younger than Reddish, he's closer to a finish product.

Just glancing at his shooting numbers in the FIBA u19 tournament that he recently dominated in, I noticed they actually pale in comparison to Reddish's. Moreover, I don't think his shooting %s, physical profile/measurables and the stats that indicate ball-handling are as predictive of a superstar ceiling as Reddish's.

Obviously Barrett has a much higher floor than Reddish (due to his motor, IQ and hyper-aggressiveness which is illustrated by the otherworldly FT rate he posted in EYBL and FIBA u19) but I'm not completely sold on the perceived gap between he and Reddish.

Basically, I'd be completely content with whoever commits first - both will be top-5 picks in the 2019 NBA draft and will likely threaten the freshman scoring record wherever they land.
 
I love Barrett's game and think he would do great at Duke. I agree his handles are average, but he does so many things well. He can shoot and drive and is a willing passer. We probably wouldn't use him as an ISO scorer and would probably let him use a lot of off ball screens to get open shots and secondary drives. He is versatile and could guard 2s and 3s and possibly even some 4s in college depending on the opponent.

He doesn't shy away from contact and I can see him having a high FT rate. Hopefully he can improve on his free throws. We use players like Barrett well and can get him great looks. Like CHS said, Tre can do the majority of the ball-handling in that offense and allow Barrett to play off the ball. We'd be a lot less of an ISO offense IMO.
 
Maybe Barrett won't get too much better, but he doesn't have to. He has an NBA-level scoring arsenal in high school. He can shoot, put it on the floor, finish through contact, etc. Most importantly, he reads the game so well. His passing, understanding of spacing, use of screens, and knowing when to cut demonstrate exceptional basketball IQ.

I don't understand the names I see being thrown around. A "more polished Winslow" doesn't make any sense to me. Neither does the Bazz comparison. He's more like Hood or even Luke Kennard.
 
Reddish and Barrett are very comparable size wise. Reddish has a decent edge in wingspan, but is also almost a full year older than Barrett. Both compare fairly well to the better wings in the NBA and the recent high draft picks. Both need to put some weight and strength on, but almost all of those guys above had to as well or still need to.

RJ Barrett 6'6.5'' 6'10''
Cam Reddish 6'7'' 7'1''

Michael Porter 6'10'' 7'0''
Jayson Tatum 6'8'' 6'11''
Josh Jackson 6'8'' 6'10''
Brandon Ingram 6'10'' 7'3''
Jaylen Brown 6'7'' 7'0''
Stanley Johnson 6'6.5'' 6'10.5''

Paul George 6'9'' 6'11''
Kawhi Leonard 6'7'' 7'3''
Klay Thompson 6'6'' 6'8''
Demar DeRozan 6'6.5'' 6'9''
Jimmy Butler 6'8'' 6'7.5''
Andrew Wiggins 6'8'' 7'0''


In dissecting each of their games, both have some clear things they need to work on. Combining EYBL and FIBA 19 Championship statistics below.

Barrett
15 Games
23.1 Points Per Game
110-247 44.5% FG
15-63 24% 3PT
110-171 64% FT (11.4 Attempts per game!!!!)
9.9 Rebounds Per Game
3.7 Assists Per Game
3.1 Turnovers Per Game
1.3 Steals Per Game

Reddish
23 Games
19 Points Per Game
127-304 41.8% FG
57-167 34% 3PT
114-150 76% FT (6.5 Attempts per game)
6.7 Rebounds Per Game
3 Assist Per Game
2 Turnovers Per Game
1.6 Steals Per Game


Barrett is very impressive considering his jumpshooting numbers are dismal. Reddish shot the ball extremely poorly from the outside in the EYBL, but was clearly the best shooter for USA with the most 3's as well as the highest percentage. His 76% from the line, also suggests he is a fairly good shooter.

Barrett's shooting mechanics aren't bad, I expect him to become a good shooter in time. He just turned 17. The comparisons to Shabazz Muhammad don't run true to me. As others have pointed out, he's played for some very good coaches and looks to be a willing passer. The biggest difference to me is that Muhammad just physically bullied his competition. A 225 pound power wing in HS is going to be really tough to stop. The Harrison twins at Kentucky also had this advantage in HS and have fizzled out in the pros. Zion Williamson concerns me this way, not Barrett though.


Barrett's strength and weaknesses from Draft Express at this years Nike Hoop Summit

STRENGTHS -Tremendous physical profile for his age. Developed, yet still has quite a bit of room to fill out. Wide shoulders. Long arms with a 6' 10 wingspan. Measured 6' 6.5 in shoes. -Good athlete who is a tough cover in transition thanks to his long strides. Puts pressure on the rim. Not afraid of contact. -Not afraid of the moment. Was rarely underwhelmed by the fact that he was by far the youngest player in attendance. Plays with a level of confidence rare for his age. -Herky-jerky style of play. Makes an effort to play at different speeds and change directions, although he can do so with more force. Uses his long strides to step around help defenders and his length to finish from different angles. Uses scoop shots. At his best as a straight line slasher either in transition or the half court. Can mix in an occasional in and out crossover. -Impressive passer when he's dialed in, especially in the open floor. Can hit rim runners in stride or drop it off to bigs around the rim with great timing. Capable of playing out of pick and roll and hitting the diver. Career 3.2 assists per 40. -Capable spot shooter with time and space. Game shooter. Struggled in drills but found a way to make shots when the lights came on. Low release point, but gets solid rotation. Lifetime 38.5 3P% on 39 attempts. -Tremendous defensive potential thanks to his frame, length and instincts. Solid feet on the ball. Uses his length in the passing lanes when he's locked in. -Impressive overall versatility for his age given his tools, slashing ability, playmaking potential, and occasional shot making.

WEAKNESSES -Excellent upper body but thin lower body. Legs are a bit bowed out. -Didn't look as explosive as he has in the past. Was slightly hampered by a lower extremity injury - had come straight from Dick's Nationals where he reportedly hurt his knee. Moves in a bit of a herky jerky fashion. Has yet to reach his athletic potential? -Struggled a bit to get by long athletes thanks to his so-so burst (maybe due to injury) and very raw handle - loose, away from his body. Makes an effort to change speeds but doesn't do so with much force. Left hand dominant at this stage. -Not as explosive around the rim in traffic as he is in space. Relies more on his length and ability to finish from different angles than pure explosiveness. Has shown he has a higher degree of explosiveness in the past -Very streaky shooter. Low release point, off hand involvement, set shot even on the move, wrist action is a little loose. Career 57.5% from the free throw line (92 attempts). Struggles to create separation and get to his jumper off the bounce without time and space, because of the nature of his release. -Decision making comes and goes. Can really pass but has his questionable moments. Will force up contested threes or wild floaters early in the clock. -Defensive intensity comes and goes, especially off the ball. Gets caught sleeping. -Not all that vocal on the court. Tends to look a bit uninterested at times. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/R.J.-Barrett-91144/ ©DraftExpress
 
burksballer20 said:
I love Barrett's game and think he would do great at Duke. I agree his handles are average, but he does so many things well. He can shoot and drive and is a willing passer. We probably wouldn't use him as an ISO scorer and would probably let him use a lot of off ball screens to get open shots and secondary drives. He is versatile and could guard 2s and 3s and possibly even some 4s in college depending on the opponent.

He doesn't shy away from contact and I can see him having a high FT rate. Hopefully he can improve on his free throws. We use players like Barrett well and can get him great looks. Like CHS said, Tre can do the majority of the ball-handling in that offense and allow Barrett to play off the ball. We'd be a lot less of an ISO offense IMO.
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I doubt Barrett (or any elite one and done wing we sign moving forward) will be primarily off the ball players in our offense. K's track record suggests he'd actually prefer them to be high usage iso scorers who can capitalize off the spacing and freedom his system provides. He's proven that he doesn't mind sacrificing efficiency for the sake of allowing his guard/versatile forwards to present themselves as a match-up nightmare who can single-highhandedly wreck a set defense.

In fact, I'm not sure how one can really look at Barrett's shooting numbers and think he'd actually be better off the ball or even nearly as good as he would be as a heavy usage #1 option in our offense.

Both he and Reddish's strengths suit being a ball-dominant scoring threat rather than an off-ball wizard of efficiency. Both are natural iso scorers first and playmakers second(via attacking close outs and drawing secondary defenders).

Reddish's shooting actually suggests he'd complement Tre (who at this stage is statistically much closer to Duval than his older brother in the area of PnR shooting potency) better off-ball than Barrett despite the superlatives used to describe Barrett at this point.

Barrett's productiveness and motor indicate he's essentially the wing version of Marvin Bagley, but like Bagley, I'm not sure if the perceived gap between he and his peers, is primarily due to productivity and motor rather than him being a legitimate transcendent NBA prospect. Nonetheless, unlike Bagley, Barrett is actually younger than his peers and is highly skilled rather than a player who dominates via physicality and superior athleticism. So I think his "bust-percentage" moving forward is as low as we've seen from a top prospect in recent years.
 
rome8180 said:
I don't understand the names I see being thrown around. A "more polished Winslow" doesn't make any sense to me. Neither does the Bazz comparison. He's more like Hood or even Luke Kennard.
Click to expand...

I've never really watched him play, so I'm just going off what I can see on paper. His height/weight are exactly identical to Winslow, though he gives up a few pounds to him, and he seems to have somewhat similar strengths and weaknesses (great motor and competitiveness, smart player, can create and hit threes but needs to improve ballhandling/shooting).

Not a perfect comparison, but seems useful in projecting what he'll look like against better competition levels.
 
wtbball21 said:
Reddish and Barrett are very comparable size wise. Reddish has a decent edge in wingspan, but is also almost a full year older than Barrett. Both compare fairly well to the better wings in the NBA and the recent high draft picks. Both need to put some weight and strength on, but almost all of those guys above had to as well or still need to.

RJ Barrett 6'6.5'' 6'10''
Cam Reddish 6'7'' 7'1''

Michael Porter 6'10'' 7'0''
Jayson Tatum 6'8'' 6'11''
Josh Jackson 6'8'' 6'10''
Brandon Ingram 6'10'' 7'3''
Jaylen Brown 6'7'' 7'0''
Stanley Johnson 6'6.5'' 6'10.5''

Paul George 6'9'' 6'11''
Kawhi Leonard 6'7'' 7'3''
Klay Thompson 6'6'' 6'8''
Demar DeRozan 6'6.5'' 6'9''
Jimmy Butler 6'8'' 6'7.5''
Andrew Wiggins 6'8'' 7'0''


In dissecting each of their games, both have some clear things they need to work on. Combining EYBL and FIBA 19 Championship statistics below.

Barrett
15 Games
23.1 Points Per Game
110-247 44.5% FG
15-63 24% 3PT
110-171 64% FT (11.4 Attempts per game!!!!)
9.9 Rebounds Per Game
3.7 Assists Per Game
3.1 Turnovers Per Game
1.3 Steals Per Game

Reddish
23 Games
19 Points Per Game
127-304 41.8% FG
57-167 34% 3PT
114-150 76% FT (6.5 Attempts per game)
6.7 Rebounds Per Game
3 Assist Per Game
2 Turnovers Per Game
1.6 Steals Per Game


Barrett is very impressive considering his jumpshooting numbers are dismal. Reddish shot the ball extremely poorly from the outside in the EYBL, but was clearly the best shooter for USA with the most 3's as well as the highest percentage. His 76% from the line, also suggests he is a fairly good shooter.

Barrett's shooting mechanics aren't bad, I expect him to become a good shooter in time. He just turned 17. The comparisons to Shabazz Muhammad don't run true to me. As others have pointed out, he's played for some very good coaches and looks to be a willing passer. The biggest difference to me is that Muhammad just physically bullied his competition. A 225 pound power wing in HS is going to be really tough to stop. The Harrison twins at Kentucky also had this advantage in HS and have fizzled out in the pros. Zion Williamson concerns me this way, not Barrett though.


Barrett's strength and weaknesses from Draft Express at this years Nike Hoop Summit

STRENGTHS -Tremendous physical profile for his age. Developed, yet still has quite a bit of room to fill out. Wide shoulders. Long arms with a 6' 10 wingspan. Measured 6' 6.5 in shoes. -Good athlete who is a tough cover in transition thanks to his long strides. Puts pressure on the rim. Not afraid of contact. -Not afraid of the moment. Was rarely underwhelmed by the fact that he was by far the youngest player in attendance. Plays with a level of confidence rare for his age. -Herky-jerky style of play. Makes an effort to play at different speeds and change directions, although he can do so with more force. Uses his long strides to step around help defenders and his length to finish from different angles. Uses scoop shots. At his best as a straight line slasher either in transition or the half court. Can mix in an occasional in and out crossover. -Impressive passer when he's dialed in, especially in the open floor. Can hit rim runners in stride or drop it off to bigs around the rim with great timing. Capable of playing out of pick and roll and hitting the diver. Career 3.2 assists per 40. -Capable spot shooter with time and space. Game shooter. Struggled in drills but found a way to make shots when the lights came on. Low release point, but gets solid rotation. Lifetime 38.5 3P% on 39 attempts. -Tremendous defensive potential thanks to his frame, length and instincts. Solid feet on the ball. Uses his length in the passing lanes when he's locked in. -Impressive overall versatility for his age given his tools, slashing ability, playmaking potential, and occasional shot making.

WEAKNESSES -Excellent upper body but thin lower body. Legs are a bit bowed out. -Didn't look as explosive as he has in the past. Was slightly hampered by a lower extremity injury - had come straight from Dick's Nationals where he reportedly hurt his knee. Moves in a bit of a herky jerky fashion. Has yet to reach his athletic potential? -Struggled a bit to get by long athletes thanks to his so-so burst (maybe due to injury) and very raw handle - loose, away from his body. Makes an effort to change speeds but doesn't do so with much force. Left hand dominant at this stage. -Not as explosive around the rim in traffic as he is in space. Relies more on his length and ability to finish from different angles than pure explosiveness. Has shown he has a higher degree of explosiveness in the past -Very streaky shooter. Low release point, off hand involvement, set shot even on the move, wrist action is a little loose. Career 57.5% from the free throw line (92 attempts). Struggles to create separation and get to his jumper off the bounce without time and space, because of the nature of his release. -Decision making comes and goes. Can really pass but has his questionable moments. Will force up contested threes or wild floaters early in the clock. -Defensive intensity comes and goes, especially off the ball. Gets caught sleeping. -Not all that vocal on the court. Tends to look a bit uninterested at times. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/R.J.-Barrett-91144/ ©DraftExpress
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Thank you for posting all this here. It seems like Barrett and Reddish have very different strengths and would compliment each other well.
 
It does seem like Barrett at the 3 with Reddish at the 4 would be the perfect combo. Pairing them with a JR Javin at the 5 would pretty much be the perfect K frontcourt for Tre to work with.

Part of my size nitpicking is wondering what position Barrett would play at Duke. Length-wise, he's closer to Gary Trent (0.5" taller in shoes, 1.5" longer wingspan) than most of our stretch 4s. Winslow had the shortest standing reach of any of them, but had an 8'8.5" standing reach and was built like a linebacker. (Reddish has the same as Winslow and Barrett's is 2 inches shorter, FWIW.)

Barrett on his own seems too small to play the 4 full time, and Reddish on his own seems like someone we'd hate as a first/second option. Both of them together seems like it would solve everything.
 
I admit I am surprised at Barrett's poor shooting numbers. Admittedly, I've only watched a couple games of his, but based on the mechanics, the way he was getting shots, and the way the shots looked when they went in, I expected something more like Kennard efficiency. The FT rate is nice, but the FT percentage is a little worrisome.
 
DukeInPeru said:
I have not seen him play, but would DeDar DeRozan be a good comp for Barrett?
Click to expand...

I think at present time, that is a fair comparison - they both draw a lot of fouls, move fairly well off the ball, decent mid range shot. RJ seems to be more of a playmaker.

I think RJ will evolve into a more competent 3 point shooter (he and his father grasp the importance of this) and (IMO) he will be a stronger defender than DeRozan.
 
That would be quite a player if he is more of a playmaker, and becomes a better shooter and defender. Lebron-lite maybe.

Is Barrett as athletic as DeRozan? They are similar size, very scoring orientated, and have trouble with their shot at times.
 
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