Game Thread [2022-23] Wake Forest

[rome8180]

I generally like this team. They play hard and seem to care. They're slowly getting better, in my opinion (mostly thanks to the improvements of Proctor, Flip, and Lively).

I also like watching the process of Scheyer's first year as coach. While I'm critical of the recruiting strategy that got us in this situation in the first place, and while I don't love all the lineups, I generally think he's done a good job working with what he has. I like our defensive principles. I like the fact that nine guys play.

I'm enjoying this team stylistically more than last year's, to be honest. Part of that is that I was so burnt-out on watching Coach K's braindead defensive schemes. Part of that is the Paolo isos were unpleasant. In my opinion, there's more variety in what we're running this year, even if it's not always successful. I'm seeing a lot of Spain pick and roll and other interesting modern stuff instead of the same bullshit horns set over and over.

Would it look better if there was more frontcourt spacing? Sure. But we're also #1 in the country in offensive rebounding, last I looked, and I don't want to punt on that. The main way this team can evolve is for Whitehead to take Mitchell's starter minutes, but he needs to be healthy and good for that to happen.

I also think having low expectations helps. K had raised the bar so high that every year we weren't a national title favorite felt like a disaster.

 

[Devilsforlife]

This team also hasn’t had any disgusting losses quality-wise yet. All six have been in Quadrant 1 games. Contrast to 2021, which already had three atrocious sub-100 losses and zero quality wins at this point in the season. We’re not going to win the title or even make the Final Four, but we’ve had to endure far worse with Duke in recent memory. I’d be quite content if we were to split with UNC and lose a close game in the second round to a 3 or 4 seed. A Sweet 16 would be fantastic.

It‘s still pathetic that our defense was #50 in the country with Mark Williams last year. I do wonder if we’d have rolled to a title had Scheyer been coaching simply due to improvement on that end of the floor.

 

[rome8180]

This team also hasn’t had any disgusting losses quality-wise yet. All six have been in Quadrant 1 games. Contrast to 2021, which already had three atrocious sub-100 losses and zero quality wins at this point in the season. We’re not going to win the title or even make the Final Four, but we’ve had to endure far worse with Duke in recent memory. I’d be quite content if we were to split with UNC and lose a close game in the second round to a 3 or 4 seed. A Sweet 16 would be fantastic.

It‘s still pathetic that our defense was #50 in the country with Mark Williams last year. I do wonder if we’d have rolled to a title had Scheyer been coaching simply due to improvement on that end of the floor.

Yeah, that was one of K's biggest underachievments ever defensively. I think that was the best defensive personnel we've had top to bottom in recent memory. And yet somehow we finished 49th. Given how our offense hit a different level in the tournament, even an average defensive performance relative to personnel would have likely put us over the top.

 

[Devilsforlife]

After 2016 where we basically maxed out following Amile’s injury, it felt like there were major frustrations with K every year.

2017 - just a generally awful year on damn near every level
2018 - the abominable defense pre-zone switch, and the bizarre coaching decisions in the E8
2019 - RJ being “the guy” and another trash E8 coaching job
2020 - the SFA and Wake losses, and JRob being glued to the bench most of the year
2021 - truly everything
2022 - the defense and some really bad home losses

While Scheyer hasn’t been perfect, I haven’t found his coaching to be as frustrating at any point this year as I did in the final six of K. I’m glad he made one last Final Four to break the tie with Wooden last year, but it was definitely time for him to retire, too.

 

[dukebluedevils05]

I hate that Wake had the ridiculous comeback at the end because it scarred an otherwise encouraging performance IMO. Like rome said, Proctor and Lively’s improvement has been noteworthy and reason for optimism. I thought there was great energy from the team last night, we looked more cohesive and cleaner in a lot of areas. The late game collapses are certainly still a big cause for concern.

These next couple games are huge for giving us an idea of how much we might be able to compete in the postseason. A split with UNC and sweet 16 would be an unbelievably successful season IMO. First round loss disappointing but not a total surprise given the unevenness of the year.

 

[rome8180]

Yeah, I'm just watching it now. Weren't we up 7 with 30 seconds left? It would be nice if we could figure out how to close out games.

 

[Devilsforlife]

Wake’s last 5 points effectively came in garbage time. 75-73 was a deceptively close final. I was never very worried we’d lose after Flip hit that 3 to put us up 73-66 with 45 seconds left.

 

[rome8180]

How has Wake not been better the last two seasons? Got one of the best transfer guards in the country two years in a row. Have a coach who seems willing to try some stuff. Have Hildreth as another skilled perimeter player, and have a sharpshooter in Monsanto.

 

[rome8180]

Also, I assume they start bricking at some point? Because I'm watching the first half now, and despite the whole "Shot Quality Upset" tweet, it feels like they've hit literally every three they've taken.

 

[Devilsforlife]

Steve Forbes is good at working the portal, but a mediocre coach overall, imo. Better than the empty suits that were Bzdelik and Manning, but he won’t be the guy to get Wake back to consistent NCAAT appearances.

 

[rome8180]

Wake was flopping like crazy. There should be a "Ref Quality" twitter account.

 

[rome8180]

Lol, these are the worst fucking refs I've ever seen. Reeeffffs

 

[rome8180]

we did hit a ton of mid range jump shots

To be fair, this was based on the way they were defending. They were triple teaming the post but conceding wide open midrange jumpers. It was mostly Roach taking and making them, and that's his preferred shot.

 

[rome8180]

BC and Pitt have not won in Cameron since joining the ACC.

Have they ever won in Cameron? I was looking, and I could only find home or neutral court wins for both teams.

I'm sure you all remember losing to Pitt in Madison Square Garden in 2007 (during the 2007-08 season). Levance Fields buried the game winner over David McClure. I was watching in a bar. Some drunk dude yelled "Fuck you, McClure!"

As far as I could tell our only neutral loss to BC was in the 1985 NCAA tournament. Johnny Dawkins shot 6-21 in a game Duke lost by one. Our other two losses in our head-to-head series are both at BC.

 

[aiw]

That was Gary Williams in 1985

 

[Devilsforlife]

BC and Pitt have not won in Cameron since joining the ACC.

Have they ever won in Cameron? I was looking, and I could only find home or neutral court wins for both teams.

I'm sure you all remember losing to Pitt in Madison Square Garden in 2007 (during the 2007-08 season). Levance Fields buried the game winner over David McClure. I was watching in a bar. Some drunk dude yelled "Fuck you, McClure!"

As far as I could tell our only neutral loss to BC was in the 1985 NCAA tournament. Johnny Dawkins shot 6-21 in a game Duke lost by one. Our other two losses in our head-to-head series are both at BC.

Seems Pitt won in Cameron in 1979. BC never has.

 

[rome8180]

BC and Pitt have not won in Cameron since joining the ACC.

Have they ever won in Cameron? I was looking, and I could only find home or neutral court wins for both teams.

I'm sure you all remember losing to Pitt in Madison Square Garden in 2007 (during the 2007-08 season). Levance Fields buried the game winner over David McClure. I was watching in a bar. Some drunk dude yelled "Fuck you, McClure!"

As far as I could tell our only neutral loss to BC was in the 1985 NCAA tournament. Johnny Dawkins shot 6-21 in a game Duke lost by one. Our other two losses in our head-to-head series are both at BC.

Seems Pitt won in Cameron in 1979. BC never has.

Pitt Five Stuns Duke On Late Goal, 71‐69 (Published 1979)

www.nytimes.com

That was so long ago, the papers were calling it a "dunk shot." Also, apparently Duke started playing stall ball with 3 minutes left and the scored tied at 69 (nice). Only one basket was scored after that. It was the game-winner after Kenny Dennard bobbled a pass.