Game Thread [2023-24] NC State (ACC Quarterfinals)

[SeanMayTriedToEatMe]

The case Scheyer will need to make for himself if he fails for the next two seasons will have two prominent precedents at the heart of it, IMO: K and Harbaugh. Unfortunately, I think this will be as effective as NFL front offices making the case for every horribly inaccurate and unaware QB out of college becoming the next Josh Allen.

K is simply a one-of in history, and Harbaugh was a Super Bowl coach and miracle worker in college before his turbulent start at Michigan. The Iron Dukes, who are mostly illogical oldheads, will run Scheyer out of town if the administration doesn’t do it first.

I can’t see Duke trying to keep the basketball program at this level of getting the top recruits every season when the returns aren’t phenomenal, like they were for 30 years under K. Financially, objectively, it just makes sense to pour everything into football and let basketball die.

 

[Ladevil]

I just don’t see any fight or togetherness in this squad. To be honest , Ever since Mark had to wear the #25 something just seemed weird.

I hate Flips constant falling on the ground.

I don’t see how proctor can be a first round pick.

I don’t see our captain pulling guys together, hustling, showing fight.

It’s just not a good group.

 

[dukebluedevils05]

We lost to fucking Kevin Keatts. How is there any other argument?

 

[Devilsforlife]

My main critique of Scheyer so far is going into this season with such a soft frontcourt. He appears to be course-correcting for next year. The talent level isn’t as high as it’s been for much of the OAD era, and this team lacks truly elite game breakers. Sadly we were overrated in the preseason. He’s done very well on the defensive end overall in his first two seasons, and we do have a top 10 offense this year.

Look, based on what we’ve seen so far, Scheyer won’t make the second weekend of the tournament next season, no matter the talent.

Great dude, but he can’t coach.

He can’t coach because he has personnel… fairly similar to our 2008 team, that lost in the first weekend, this year?

I do agree that not making the second weekend next year would be bad. Going out early three years in a row is something we never saw under K after he got it rolling.

 

[physicsfactor]

We lost to fucking Kevin Keatts. How is there any other argument?

@dub_seahawks A rebuttal?

 

[dukebluedevils05]

My main critique of Scheyer so far is going into this season with such a soft frontcourt. He appears to be course-correcting for next year. The talent level isn’t as high as it’s been for much of the OAD era, and this team lacks truly elite game breakers. Sadly we were overrated in the preseason. He’s done very well on the defensive end overall in his first two seasons, and we do have a top 10 offense this year.

Look, based on what we’ve seen so far, Scheyer won’t make the second weekend of the tournament next season, no matter the talent.

Great dude, but he can’t coach.

He can’t coach because he has personnel… fairly similar to our 2008 team, that also lost in the first weekend, this year?

I do agree that not making the second weekend next year would be bad. Going out early three years in a row is something we never saw under K after he got it rolling.

We returned four starters, had the second best recruiting class, preseason number two, yet got boat raced by UNC twice, and lost to NC FUCKING STATE in the Acc tournament and I’m supposed to blame the players and pretend like all is well?

 

[krsmith16]

The horrible

Scheyer caused me to stub my toe, and for my crops to die

What is your case for Scheyer appearing to be a competent coach?

There is none. All they’ll say is ‘because he can recruit.’

Putting competent defenses on the floor two years in a row means nothing in assessing Scheyer’s overall coaching abilities? This team would’ve gotten lit up all year on that end of the floor under post-2011 K.

Favorably comparing scheyer to late-stage K seems a bit back-handed. But probably warranted.

 

[Slap the Floor]

The horrible

Scheyer caused me to stub my toe, and for my crops to die

What is your case for Scheyer appearing to be a competent coach?

There is none. All they’ll say is ‘because he can recruit.’

Putting competent defenses on the floor two years in a row means nothing in assessing Scheyer’s overall coaching abilities? This team would’ve gotten lit up all year on that end of the floor under post-2011 K.

You can say what you want about K's defense post 2011 but he won it all in 2015, Sweet Sixteen in 2016, then went to the Elite Eight in 18 and 19, was in line for a 2 seed in 2020, and made the Final Four in 2022. Late stage K was frustrating and at times painful, but it's not nearly as bad as we make it out to be. That's a great run and we will be lucky and blessed if Scheyer even sniffs a stretch like that in his career.

It's a small sample size, but Duke getting just physically dominated in big games is becoming a trend. Last year against Tennessee, twice against UNC this year, against this terrible NC State team in the ACCT. Scheyer has time to correct it, but he's also running out of time. He doesn't have decades of success to fall back on like late stage K did.

 

[Devilsforlife]

We’re not firing Scheyer as long as we remain a consistent tournament team under him, unless he goes something awful like 0/6 in getting out of the first weekend.

 

[krsmith16]

And what does K even have to do with this? Did he instruct Scheyer to avoid 2 for 1s at all costs?

 

[dukebluedevils05]

We’re not firing Scheyer as long as we remain a consistent tournament team under him, unless he goes something awful like 0/6 in getting out of the first weekend.

That’s fine, but two years in and it looks like we’re about to be 0-2 in getting out of the first weekend……

 

[Devilsforlife]

My main critique of Scheyer so far is going into this season with such a soft frontcourt. He appears to be course-correcting for next year. The talent level isn’t as high as it’s been for much of the OAD era, and this team lacks truly elite game breakers. Sadly we were overrated in the preseason. He’s done very well on the defensive end overall in his first two seasons, and we do have a top 10 offense this year.

Look, based on what we’ve seen so far, Scheyer won’t make the second weekend of the tournament next season, no matter the talent.

Great dude, but he can’t coach.

He can’t coach because he has personnel… fairly similar to our 2008 team, that also lost in the first weekend, this year?

I do agree that not making the second weekend next year would be bad. Going out early three years in a row is something we never saw under K after he got it rolling.

We returned four starters, had the second best recruiting class, preseason number two, yet got boat raced by UNC twice, and lost to NC FUCKING STATE in the Acc tournament and I’m supposed to blame the players and pretend like all is well?

I’m pretty fucking disappointed over how the last two games have gone myself, but this team just feels like 2008 to me. Great shooting team with an undersized frontcourt that goes cold and gets bodied in March.

 

[dukebluedevils05]

And again, every bad loss (and I would assume all agree that’s what tonight is), recruits will have decision makers in their ears telling them Scheyer is clueless. And so far it looks credible.

It’s only going to get harder to accumulate talent.

 

[Slap the Floor]

 

[SeanMayTriedToEatMe]

Some people haven’t played dynasty mode on an NCAA video game before, and it shows. This is expected, given the game hasn’t existed for so long. If Scheyer keeps getting results like this, the recruiting will suffer at some point. Then he’s coaching with non-elite freshmen, who all still want to transfer if they’re not getting playing time, and an administration who doesn’t allow Scheyer to accept any elite transfers from the portal who aren’t 3.5+ GPA guys from top academic places. No coach can win at a high level with good but not great recruiting and Ryan Young being the best caliber transfer he’s allowed to get.

I expect Duke basketball to put a product out there in 5 years like Jeremy Blakes, Alex O’Connell, Joey Baker, Patrick Tape, Ryan Young. And that’s fine. As long as all the resources are helping football become very good.

 

[Devilsforlife]

27-9 and 24-8 does not scream clueless, to me. Bill Self, the only remaining active coach with multiple titles at his current school, has had three seasons below the level Scheyer has shown so far since 2019. We still need to get to the next level, but Jon is hardly coming off as Kyle Neptune at Villanova so far.

 

[dukebluedevils05]

Yikes.

 

[Slap the Floor]

Since the 2nd UNC game it has just been a wave of negativity towards Duke, and the program has not done well handling it.

 

[dukebluedevils05]

27-9 and 24-8 does not scream clueless, to me. Bill Self, the only remaining active coach with multiple titles at his current school, has had three seasons below the level Scheyer has shown so far since 2019. We still need to get to the next level, but Jon is hardly coming off as Kyle Neptune at Villanova so far.

That’s fine. He can’t win meaningful games, how’s that? And you said ‘unless he goes like 0-6 in making it out of first weekends’ when he’s on pace to start his career 0-2. It’s not a good omen, I would assume we agree on that.

 

[DurhamSon]

I don’t think the pre-crime ‘recruiting will suck’ being spoken in prophetic perfect tense is fair to use against Scheyer until it actually occurs.

That’s fair game if it ever happens, but nothing about this season, when comparing to recruiting peer programs like Kansas and Kentucky (or UNC last year), makes it seem remotely in the cards