Game Thread [2023-24] NC State (ACC Quarterfinals)

[Pantone287]

Too early to write Jon off. Defenses have been promising, overall records not bad, and won the ACCT in his first year. Sample sizes are still small and largely defined by personnel - it's not like Hubie looked great a year ago either. We'll see what happens in a week.

IMO, no point in getting too worked up before next year, which was always going to be the rubber-meeting-road year for his initial legacy. Still need to go all-in on loading up and dominating the field, and all previous failures will be forgiven and forgetten. No excuses either way at that point and we'll see what's what.

 

[Devilsforlife]

Yeah, I won’t be so forgiving if next year underwhelms too, though I won’t be calling for Scheyer’s head yet, either.

 

[dukebluedevils05]

Too early, with far too many variables, but it begs the question about what it would take results wise next year to get everyone back on the same page again and inspiring confidence. Minimum second weekend? Minimum Final Four? Less than 6ish (too high? too low?) regular season losses?

 

[Devilsforlife]

Minimum S16, preferably E8 or Final Four. It’ll come down to how we do in the tournament, ultimately. I don’t care if we go 30-10, if we win it all.

 

[Devilsforlife]

Backcourt combined to shoot 7/28, and 3/14 from 3. How could that no good, clueless, incompetent idiot Scheyer do that to us!

 

[krsmith16]

Tremendous post.

 

[bizy]

Many say this team has plenty of talent (individual), then what can we point to other than poor coaching and/or preparation and a virtual complete absence of on-floor leadership? I can’t remember being more frustrated about a Duke team than I am about this one. There’s no fire. No fight for 50/50 opportunities. No will to win. No ability to motivate the players. There's a poor understanding of offensive movement without the ball and a penchant for standing around watching teammates dribble. A seeming willingness to continue to tolerate the same kind of disjointed effort. It’s mind boggling and I'm blaming the coaches - all of them! The least a coach can do is put together a worthy TEAM with this much talent!

 

[DurhamSon]

Some are having emotional overreactions to a rough week, I understand, it sucks to lose two games this closely. The Scheyer Schooner will still welcome all aboard when nerves are calmed back down and those folks are ready for the ride

 

[Devilsforlife]

Many say this team has plenty of talent (individual), then what can we point to other than poor coaching and/or preparation and a virtual complete absence of on-floor leadership? I can’t remember being more frustrated about a Duke team than I am about this one. There’s no fire. No fight for 50/50 opportunities. No will to win. No ability to motivate the players. There's a poor understanding of offensive movement without the ball and a penchant for standing around watching teammates dribble. A seeming willingness to continue to tolerate the same kind of disjointed effort. It’s mind boggling and I'm blaming the coaches - all of them! The least a coach can do is put together a worthy TEAM with this much talent!

Aren’t you a Wake fan, anyway? Maybe Steve Forbes will finally make the First Four by 2030.

 

[DUKERULES14]

Too early, with far too many variables, but it begs the question about what it would take results wise next year to get everyone back on the same page again and inspiring confidence. Minimum second weekend? Minimum Final Four? Less than 6ish (too high? too low?) regular season losses?

My standard for an elite year is 30 wins and National Top 5 ranking.

The NCAAT is too much of a crapshoot to hang a season on it, you hope if you string together enough elite seasons you'll strike at some point though

 

[krsmith16]

Goddammit. We cant even enjoy some good ol infighting without a dumbfuck Wake fan trying to ruin it.

 

[krsmith16]

Haha i said wake fan.

 

[deeyoukayeee]

I think at this point, given the inherent and increasing stochastic nature of the sport, patience and some sort of serenity is in order.

I grew up when dynasties could be forged, and was lucky enough to watch K forge the final, and arguably greatest ever dynasty. We were even luckier that when times changed and things got more chaotic, K used the power of his empire to pivot to a new reality with great, if not equal, success, successfully usurping the upstart of the new breed. He bequeathed this throne to a worthy successor, though in the midst of yet another paradigm shift. Where once stood tradition, loyalty, traditional styles of play and rivalries the game has become utter chaos. Every input into the making of a team has become an order of magnitude more difficult than it was two decades ago. Some greats have foundered, many uncertains have prospered.

Frankly, I don't think anyone has the answer at this point. Hubert led the #1 team into the dirt last year, and Self, Drew and Few are reeling this year. Lasagna just lost 10 straight with far more than a decent team backed by huge NIL. Team construction is going to be somewhat random given the variance between those who are mercenaries and those who value brand. This might settle out, but the equilibrium won't take effect for some years. K and Roy were old, but Saban got out because he saw this (I know, different sport).

Not certain Jon is the answer, but other than Shane he was the smartest Duke player I ever saw, and the kids seem to like him. I guess recruiting could suffer, but UK hasn't won dick in 10 years and they still pull based on pros. UNC hasn't produced an NBA all star since Vince Carter graduated 26 years ago and they still can get players. So I think Duke, having won a lot and also produced really good pros a lot, will likely be OK.

Anyway TL/DR, but in a world of disorder, I think our standing is pretty solid.

 

[bfactor]

Haha i said wake fan.

There are dozens of them, and some of them even register on Duke boards years ago, two days before a Wake game and only post in/around Wake games.

 

[krsmith16]

Well that one sounds like a total weirdo.

 

[Pantone287]

Too early, with far too many variables, but it begs the question about what it would take results wise next year to get everyone back on the same page again and inspiring confidence. Minimum second weekend? Minimum Final Four? Less than 6ish (too high? too low?) regular season losses?

For me itt's almost as much to do with what he can swing with roster construction as anything else - I know I'm a broken record, but you just HAVE to get three of the veteran rotation guys back to start at the 1-3 if you're Jon, or a clearly equivalent transfer.

If you're the head guy at Duke, you have to have the "get it done" skills to make that happen with the stakes being what they are, given that only one of the five such options has first rounder prospects.

If he can get that box checked, I'd really like to see us be a dominant 1-seed over the course of the year and at least not have a gross first-weekend upset. Tourney is what ultimately matters, but it's also kind of random as a way to measure coaching acumen and team quality. Even 2019's steamroller came down to a final possession coin flip in every round after the first.

 

[SeanMayTriedToEatMe]

I can't imagine trying to troll this board, especially as an objectively unintelligent person. What would a successful troll post even look like here? It would be like a 4th dimension of trolling.

 

[krsmith16]

he is not a very good coach.

How are we measuring this, just so I can make a comparison to the rest of the coaching ranks the last two seasons

I think whatever metric i chose would also demonstrate the greatness of coach K in his final years….which makes the entire thing a bit pointless, right?

 

[dukebluedevils05]

I just watched the postgame presser and I feel even worse. Scheyer said (yet again) that we ‘didn’t handle what we could control tonight,’ the insinuation that we aren’t playing hard enough, competing hard enough. Same thing he said after Saturday, same thing he said the evening of February 3rd. That’s discouraging.

 

[bdotling]

Late response but there are many things Scheyer hasn’t coached well. I think a particular weakness of his are inbound plays and end of half/end of game situations. At the end of game today we looked clueless as what to do on offense. These weaknesses to me in discrete situations infers that he’s not strong tactically.

I also think Jon is slow to adjust to certain game plans like Zona sagging off Mitchell. Two other teams copied that exact formula in the games after and there was no counter to it. State did it again today and we got lucky Mitchell hit a couple 3s because otherwise it was quite effective. Maybe because it’s sticking with his guys to show that he trusts them? I don’t really know.

Last, I’m also starting to get concerned with player development. Obviously there have been some good successes in season like Lively last year but now I don’t know if that is frankly him just getting back from injury given how well he’s doing in the league. Our sophomores have been thoroughly disappointing. Not a single one is demonstrably better and/or more consistent than last year.

Obviously Scheyer has done well in other parts such as our over all defensive improvements but the three things I mention above are not small issues to be solved.