Game Thread [2023-24] North Carolina

[Devilsforlife]

K clutched up and took home the prize in 2010 and 2015, but it did feel like he often came up small in the bigger moments towards the end of his career. Only making three Final Fours after 2004 and winning the regular season once after 2010 was quite disappointing. The 0-8 UNC and 0-5 against higher seed stats just further tie into it. Even the ACC Tournament became rare after 2011, with only 2017 and 2019 taking it.

 

[DUKERULES14]

I think as time goes on it will become more obvious late K was not that great a coach. It felt like he liked the CEO-part of being a coach more than actually coaching. Duke fans were just reluctant to say anything because there's always that contingent of fans who think no one could ever be better.

If Jon gets Duke to a 2-seed in this year's tourney (which likely means winning Saturday), I think we can conclude he's no worse than late-K, with potential to be better.

 

[childress22]

I think as time goes on it will become more obvious late K was not that great a coach. It felt like he liked the CEO-part of being a coach more than actually coaching. Duke fans were just reluctant to say anything....

Reluctant to say anything? Were you around many Duke fans in K's last 10 years? Maybe it's message board culture, but I remember people saying he'd "lost it" and was "senile" even in 2007 and 2008.

 

[DUKERULES14]

I think as time goes on it will become more obvious late K was not that great a coach. It felt like he liked the CEO-part of being a coach more than actually coaching. Duke fans were just reluctant to say anything....

Reluctant to say anything? Were you around many Duke fans in K's last 10 years? Maybe it's message board culture, but I remember people saying he'd "lost it" and was "senile" even in 2007 and 2008.

Oh I was around, I'm thinking more along the lines of, willing to tell people in person, not just behind a keyboard.

Most Duke fans I interact with in-person were super reluctant to criticize K, the discussion always ended with, "we'll be worse when he retires, you're just spoiled."

 

[SeanMayTriedToEatMe]

Scheyer can accomplish two K-eluded birds with one rock this season if he beats a higher seeded UConn in the Final Four.

 

[childress22]

Most Duke fans I interact with in-person were super reluctant to criticize K, the discussion always ended with, "we'll be worse when he retires, you're just spoiled."

From my experience there was a recognition that he was a good bit worse than his let's say 1986-2006 prime, and still probably a Top 15 coach for most of those seasons. Like was he much worse than Cal, or Few, or Bennett, or whoever? Head-to-head, it was still usually at worse a draw.

 

[DUKERULES14]

Scheyer can accomplish two K-eluded birds with one rock this season if he beats a higher seeded UConn in the Final Four.

I'm sure Avery on the staff would love some redemption

 

[aiw]

. It felt like he liked the CEO-part of being a coach more than actually coaching

At one time, K was a great and innovative coach. The CEO part happened later on, probably after the 2010 championship when he was managing OAD and USA basketball.

 

[rome8180]

I think as time goes on it will become more obvious late K was not that great a coach. It felt like he liked the CEO-part of being a coach more than actually coaching. Duke fans were just reluctant to say anything....

Reluctant to say anything? Were you around many Duke fans in K's last 10 years? Maybe it's message board culture, but I remember people saying he'd "lost it" and was "senile" even in 2007 and 2008.

That wasn't my experience of message board culture AT ALL. Sure, on this board. But on TDD, I felt like a ton of arguments got shut down with the whole "He's the GOAT. Have you won four championships?" or whatever the number was at the time.

 

[aiw]

That's correct. Everywhere but here and that was part of what led to this place

 

[rome8180]

I think it's probably unprovable, and it's based on what irritates you more. There's nothing that makes me want to smack someone in the face more than cultish devotion to their "great leader." And there's no dumber way to shut down an argument than the "experience fallacy" or whatever you want to call it (i.e. - saying you can't criticize someone with more experience than you). So I remember that being the majority of TDD posters.

In my memory, way more people were willing to criticize the players, which I hated. I always think the fucking 70-year-old who's been doing this for 30+ years deserves the criticism, not the player playing his ass off who just happens to be missing threes or to have certain athletic limitations.

 

[SeanMayTriedToEatMe]

It wasn’t much different than the entire country right now w/r/t the leading candidate of the political party each person supports. Any objective observer from some other country is laughing at the thought of an American believing either Biden or Trump is of sound mind. It’s human nature, both to degrade with age and to support the great leader when the alternative is feeling suicidal every moment for 4 years.

 

[DUKERULES14]

. It felt like he liked the CEO-part of being a coach more than actually coaching

At one time, K was a great and innovative coach. The CEO part happened later on, probably after the 2010 championship when he was managing OAD and USA basketball.

I agree, Grant Hill was still at Duke when I started following Duke Basketball. K was much different then.

I think 2010 was the last team with that K, 2011-2013 were transition years with OAD starting in earnest, but with a class of Kelly, Curry, and Mason as the core players in those years, and I think the Parker/Hood team was the real starting point of the late-K phase. Starting with that team, we had at least one OAD every year and we never had a great Senior class after 2013.

The very good Seniors we've had since have been few, and usually just one on a team, at most

 

[rome8180]

I've moved to predicting a loss after seeing Jayson Tatum get shit on all over Twitter tonight.

 

[StopThePumpFakesShav]

This has opened at Duke -4.5

I am nervous for this one.

 

[DurhamSon]

This has opened at Duke -4.5

I am nervous for this one.

I'm trying to channel the spirit of 1966, where Duke's most iconic player led them to a clean 3-0 sweep of UNC

 

[deepdarkblue]

This has opened at Duke -4.5

I am nervous for this one.

I'm trying to channel the spirit of 1966, where Duke's most iconic player led them to a clean 3-0 sweep of UNC

Careful, you could be the next victim of elder abuse.

 

[deepdarkblue]

I think we're going to win, and I'm never right about these things.

 

[bfactor]

This has opened at Duke -4.5

I am nervous for this one.

I'm trying to channel the spirit of 1966, where Duke's most iconic player led them to a clean 3-0 sweep of UNC

50+ years later and it's unfortunate that this inspiring story might have been lost to the winds of time and illiteracy.

 

[DurhamSon]

This has opened at Duke -4.5

I am nervous for this one.

I'm trying to channel the spirit of 1966, where Duke's most iconic player led them to a clean 3-0 sweep of UNC

50+ years later and it's unfortunate that this inspiring story might have been lost to the winds of time and illiteracy.

It would take a hero, probably one who's very handsome and has a big penis, to write such a masterpiece. Alas no where to be found.