Player Marvin Bagley III
- Thread starter ZackM
- Start date
-
- Tags
- 2018 marvin bagley recruit
Pantone287
Legend
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2012
- Messages
- 13,410
Remember when weren't sure how we felt about him joining this team? That was such classic us.
I continue to be so amazed by his motor and how he's the first one up and down the court every time. The play where he made that absurd tip-rebound-OOB-save was case in point. Winds up in the third row as our fast break starts, still winds up careening back down the court in time to dunk back Duval's miss after the foul call and smash Duval in the head in the process because he's a human hurricane and can't be controlled.
His FT shooting was massive tonight. We don't win without him being automatic from the line. Hope that's not too much of an outlier going fwd.
My one complaint: I am perplexed at how bad he is once a driver gets a step on him. He finally had a nice block in that situation tonight, but otherwise, he's reverted to Greg Paulus as a recovery defender. Doesn't make any sense for driving on him to = an automatic 2.
I continue to be so amazed by his motor and how he's the first one up and down the court every time. The play where he made that absurd tip-rebound-OOB-save was case in point. Winds up in the third row as our fast break starts, still winds up careening back down the court in time to dunk back Duval's miss after the foul call and smash Duval in the head in the process because he's a human hurricane and can't be controlled.
His FT shooting was massive tonight. We don't win without him being automatic from the line. Hope that's not too much of an outlier going fwd.
My one complaint: I am perplexed at how bad he is once a driver gets a step on him. He finally had a nice block in that situation tonight, but otherwise, he's reverted to Greg Paulus as a recovery defender. Doesn't make any sense for driving on him to = an automatic 2.
Slap the Floor
Legend
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2014
- Messages
- 10,278
7:15 is so completely ridiculous.
rome8180
Legend
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2012
- Messages
- 52,030
I've been trying to pinpoint what bothers me about him. Or rather, not about him but about his current role on the team. I've decided I don't like the way he distorts both the offense and the defense.
On offense, he is using 29.6% of available possessions. The next highest is Duval at 21%, and I am guessing that would be lower if not for the turnovers. Then come Allen and Carter at a little over 20%. While that may be right for Carter, that seems like waaayyy too big of a gap between Bagley and Allen, especially when we consider Allen's ridiculous offensive efficiency of 135 (even with his recent offensive struggles). Whether or not Bagley really is that much better than Allen is not what I want to argue. But is it ideal for your offense, when you have other great players, to allow one guy to dominate that much? I would wager that history says it isn't. It makes the offense predictable, and as the year goes on we will be easier to defend, no matter how transcendent Bagley is. Granted, it may seem ridiculous to complain about the #1 offense.
On defense, he concedes way too many baskets. I am talking just standing there while someone dunks three feet from him. Sometimes he gives great effort, but often it feels like he has been told not to even risk fouling under any circumstances. Jabari Parker and the senior version of Mason Plumlee seemed to have the same instructions. Meanwhile, it feels like Carter ends up as the sacrificial lamb. Not only will K yank him if he isn't defending well, but it also feels like he encounters foul trouble because he is not allowed to concede in the same way. So it's a double standard, and it's one that exists in order to keep our "best" player on the floor, but I am not even sure that he is that. After all, our best performance came when he was blind and in the locker room. I know Allen has been injured, but I don't think it's a coincidence that he looked best when not sharing the court with a guy using 30% of the possessions in stagnant, predictable half court sets. And from a selfish standpoint, I would like to see our senior captain, who is an amazing player in his own right, get more shots.
None of this is really Bagley's fault, I suppose. And none of it is really unfixable. Just run more screens for Allen. And on defense, tell Bagley it's okay to pick up a foul or two. He's a driven, high motor guy, so I doubt he wants to suck on that end of the floor.
On offense, he is using 29.6% of available possessions. The next highest is Duval at 21%, and I am guessing that would be lower if not for the turnovers. Then come Allen and Carter at a little over 20%. While that may be right for Carter, that seems like waaayyy too big of a gap between Bagley and Allen, especially when we consider Allen's ridiculous offensive efficiency of 135 (even with his recent offensive struggles). Whether or not Bagley really is that much better than Allen is not what I want to argue. But is it ideal for your offense, when you have other great players, to allow one guy to dominate that much? I would wager that history says it isn't. It makes the offense predictable, and as the year goes on we will be easier to defend, no matter how transcendent Bagley is. Granted, it may seem ridiculous to complain about the #1 offense.
On defense, he concedes way too many baskets. I am talking just standing there while someone dunks three feet from him. Sometimes he gives great effort, but often it feels like he has been told not to even risk fouling under any circumstances. Jabari Parker and the senior version of Mason Plumlee seemed to have the same instructions. Meanwhile, it feels like Carter ends up as the sacrificial lamb. Not only will K yank him if he isn't defending well, but it also feels like he encounters foul trouble because he is not allowed to concede in the same way. So it's a double standard, and it's one that exists in order to keep our "best" player on the floor, but I am not even sure that he is that. After all, our best performance came when he was blind and in the locker room. I know Allen has been injured, but I don't think it's a coincidence that he looked best when not sharing the court with a guy using 30% of the possessions in stagnant, predictable half court sets. And from a selfish standpoint, I would like to see our senior captain, who is an amazing player in his own right, get more shots.
None of this is really Bagley's fault, I suppose. And none of it is really unfixable. Just run more screens for Allen. And on defense, tell Bagley it's okay to pick up a foul or two. He's a driven, high motor guy, so I doubt he wants to suck on that end of the floor.
LastHearth
All American
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2012
- Messages
- 1,416
I think you're over thinking this, his TS% of .614 is essentially the same as Grayson's .621, And when you consider Bagley gets 4 offensive rebounds at game which probably are immediately turned into putback attempts. That acounts for about 5-6% usage that is not related to running the offense. Their usage in a set offense then is actually much less exaggerated.
Devilsforlife
Legend
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2017
- Messages
- 11,280
Rome still subtly trying to push the Carter > Bagley thing, I see.
TS9
All American
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2016
- Messages
- 2,509
Carter is fantastic, and we all want Grayson to be awesome, but Bagley might actually be one of those holy-shit-is-this-real? kind of players. I have a sense that the entire team, including the coaches, are still trying to wrap their heads around what exactly they've got in this guy. So I think most of the concerns we have right now will work themselves out just through reps and game experience.
rome8180
Legend
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2012
- Messages
- 52,030
It's not about Carter vs. Bagley. It's about Bagley's usage being too high and about him getting a free pass on defense (including from posters on this site, for some reason). I didn't advocate for Carter's usage to be higher. I just don't see why we need the Jabari offense for Bagley when we have a much better team around him. Last Hearth's point about offensive rebounds may be valid, however.
CMon85
All American
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2016
- Messages
- 2,622
It's impressive to watch it unfold.
Pantone287
Legend
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2012
- Messages
- 13,410
Rome, we just don't get why you actively hate everything about Marvin Bagley. Why are u so bias?
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2012
- Messages
- 12,642
I actually agree about his usage being too high. I'm not a fan of his iso drives or 3pt shots, but I could be swayed if Topher has data showing that it's actually good. I feel like his shots should come from offensive rebounds, transition, and when he has deep post position.
rhfarmer
Legend
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2012
- Messages
- 14,710
I, too, have mixed feelings about someone having 30% usage...BUT, holy hell, I think Bagley is a legitimate freak. We've never had a player like him, so it's just so hard to evaluate. It's one of those things where you almost have to let it happen in order to see where it goes.
I agree that his defense is pretty shit, although his length is still problematic in a variety of ways on defense. You can see at the end of the Florida game where he was so active, and the Florida guys would not challenge him. He's intimidating in that regard, and I think part of these late game collapses is people just losing the will to challenge the Duke length over and over again.
I agree that his defense is pretty shit, although his length is still problematic in a variety of ways on defense. You can see at the end of the Florida game where he was so active, and the Florida guys would not challenge him. He's intimidating in that regard, and I think part of these late game collapses is people just losing the will to challenge the Duke length over and over again.