Player Cameron Reddish

[torontoduke]

Verve is the word.

 

[Slap the Floor]

I watched two Reddish games last night. Not exactly a full sample, but I see what people mean by his "disappearing." I don't actually think it comes from laziness. He gave good defensive and rebounding effort, and he was bringing the ball up the floor every time. But he was very quick to get rid of the ball when he had it. In general, he didn't attack off the dribble nearly as much as someone of his talent level should.

The good part is he doesn't force anything. I just am not sure if he should be our alpha option. Even Ingram had Allen. And in fact, Reddish's play reminds me most of Ingram on the Lakers.

I suggest that people who think he and Barrett are comparable watch games of both. I think it would be ideal if we landed Barrett and made him option #1. Reddish seems content to take open threes and push occasionally in transition. He may be our first top 5 prospect with 17% usage.

Sounds like he would be an excellent 3rd scoring option in Duke's offense behind Barrett and Jones.

Jones ain't scoring more than 10 points per game as a freshman, if that. Tre does a few things better than Tyus, mainly on the defensive end of the floor, but Tre is not on Tyus's level offensively. I find it very hard to believe that Jones would be a second option at Duke when he's got average size, is an average athlete and can't shoot. Trent would fit so nicely with Barrett and Reddish. If not, and Duke lands Garland, I guarantee that if Garland starts, he averages more PPG than Jones.

Tre isn't the shooter that Tyus but from what I've seen and also from what the reports have been, he's stronger at driving to the basket and finishing around the rim than Tyus. He seems to get to the FT line a lot as a result. Tyus averaged 11.8 as a freshman and he was surrounded by Okafor, Winslow, Cook, and Sulaimon for a part of the season. Even Amile Jefferson and Grayson were scoring a little bit. Tre Jones will be a top 3 option when he's here. There will be Reddish and hopefully Barrett. DeLaurier and Vrankovic aren't players you build an offense around, and don't score like Amile could around the rim. If they are still here, O'Connell and Tucker could be nice options off of the bench to hit 3's. Even if Garland commits, he's not a greater scoring option IMO than Jones.

Tre Jones has a lot of alpha in his game. I think he can definitely be the second scoring option next to Barrett at around 13-14ppg and Reddish will fall in similarly.

 

[Slap the Floor]

Yeah, have you not watched Jones since he took his big leap this last year? He could put up 30 when he needed to. The three-point shooting is definitely the biggest issue. But if we don't land Barrett, who do you expect to be the second scoring option?

At any rate, Reddish as option #1 doesn't seem great either. I will say that Coach K is pretty good at getting players to be more offensively aggressive though. So maybe he'll bring that out of him.

Your comment about the need for 'coaching up' Cam's level of offensive assertiveness/aggression is something that has been referenced often during this recruitment. The staff will have to meet this challenge.

They will. Coach K does a tremendous job at developing alpha scorers with killer instincts. Duke always has at least 2 guys who can light it up, and want to light it up. Ingram is a good example of this- when his freshman season first started IMO he was definitely a little timid offensively. Eventually he settled in and it got through to him to shoot the ball and be aggressive towards the basket.

 

[CMon85]

I hate the fans that think every Duke recruit will be a superstar or every Duke team is a contender but I'm shocked at how negative this board is regarding Reddish and Bagley lol.

 

[CMon85]

So knowing that we have Reddish and Bagley, would you have preferred Bagley reclass or no? I vote yes because I still think next years team can be a contender if we land a couple of recruits. This years team likely wasn't a major contender without Bagley. Jones, O'Connell, Reddish, Bagley, DeL would've been fun though.

 

[torontoduke]

So knowing that we have Reddish and Bagley, would you have preferred Bagley reclass or no? I vote yes because I still think next years team can be a contender if we land a couple of recruits. This years team likely wasn't a major contender without Bagley. Jones, O'Connell, Reddish, Bagley, DeL would've been fun though.

I prefer that Bags took the path he did. Could make the 2017/18 team a little more interesting and gives the Devils a chance at additional class of 18 top talent.

 

[torontoduke]

I actually don't think the tone was all that negative towards Cam - he has strengths and weaknesses like most other young players.

I think he'll be one hell of an addition. Unselfish, well-rounded wing player who can create for others and may have the ability to be a more effective scorer.

 

[rome8180]

I am very high on Bagley. I just want him on a different Duke team.

 

[Slap the Floor]

I'm glad he's on this team. This is my final straw with a Coach K coached defense. If he can't produce a good one with the pieces in place to have a good defensive team, then we probably won't ever have one again with him coaching.

 

[aiw]

Verve is the word.

A well ah don't you know about the verve? Everybody knows that verve is the word!

 

[StopThePumpFakesShav]

FWIW, Jones averaged 19.3 points this EYBL season to Garland's 16.8 on a roughly equivalent team (along with doing a lot of other things better that would probably warrant more minutes as a freshman). The concern about his shooting is fair, although 80% FT% is an encouraging sign that he'll improve. But overall, it seems like you're underrating how good he's been as an overall offensive stud lately.

I don't think Garland is better than Jones. If Trent leaves, and they get Garland, Garland is starting at the two and Jones at the 1, not the other way around in my opinion. I stand by my prediction, Tre is a great player and excellent at running a team, but expecting him to be a big time scorer, I,E, the second scoring option, is a mistake. Tyus averaged 25+ when he played in the EYBL and was 4th in scoring in 2015 btw. I like Tre, but from what I've seen, he's not Tyus level offensively at the same stage.

Assuming we are continuing to recruit very high level talent, I'd rather

I hate the fans that think every Duke recruit will be a superstar or every Duke team is a contender but I'm shocked at how negative this board is regarding Reddish and Bagley lol.

I think you are conflating two distinct sentiments: (1) negative regarding Bagley with (2) far less positive than the media regarding Duke '17-18's outlook, even after accounting for a significant positive impact from Bagley.

Many on this board, including myself, are (2) rather than (1).

 

[childress22]

So knowing that we have Reddish and Bagley, would you have preferred Bagley reclass or no? I vote yes because I still think next years team can be a contender if we land a couple of recruits. This years team likely wasn't a major contender without Bagley. Jones, O'Connell, Reddish, Bagley, DeL would've been fun though.

I've gotten more bullish on this year's team and more bearish on next year's team than I was.

If Trent and Bolden head off somewhere, next year's team will have zero non-freshmen who were McDonald's All-Americans. Zero non-freshmen ranked higher than Javin at #40 or so. I know that the guys we're bringing in will be great, and I feel like Jones and Reddish will be good team players as well as individual players, but... that's a rough blueprint for a title. The freshmen on that 2015 title squad joined a team that had five other McDonald's All-Americans, plus Semi. The freshmen on the 2000 squad had Battier and James, to go with a senior multi-year starter in Carrawell. This year, the cupboard's not very well-stacked, but Marques is a returning McDonald's guy, and Grayson is a second one who's also about as highly decorated, experienced, and talented a senior as you can get these days.

I feel like there's a tendency for us now to compare freshmen classes to freshmen classes, and a super-stacked version of next year's class (Barrett, Garland and Zion! Plus a big!) would look historically good, at least rankings-wise. But even if they prove to be a bit better than any class we've had, their teammates will of a different talent and experience level than any Duke freshman class had in the past 30 years or so.

 

[childress22]

I think you are conflating two distinct sentiments: (1) negative regarding Bagley with (2) far less positive than the media regarding Duke '17-18's outlook, even after accounting for a significant positive impact from Bagley.

Many on this board, including myself, are (2) rather than (1).

I'm admittedly a bit of both. Not negative on Bagley overall, but I still have a tough time imaging him making more of a positive contribution to the team than Allen or Carter, and I feel like the hype is disproportionate to the contribution I see him making.

 

[2001Dukechamps]

I hate the fans that think every Duke recruit will be a superstar or every Duke team is a contender but I'm shocked at how negative this board is regarding Reddish and Bagley lol.

I completely understand the skepticism regarding Bagley's impact/fit on this team, but not the depiction of Reddish. Especially since there's obvious statistical indications of Reddish's elite scoring ability that can be seen from a mile a way.

I'm fairly confident that after Reddish finishes his one year at Duke, the notion that a potential 20+ PPG NBA starter wasn't capable of being a solid #1 option on a relatively depleted college roster - will not age well when we look back at this thread.

You have to assume a kid is ready to dominate on the college level, when his coaches (who've recently also coached talent like Mo Bamba, Brandon Randolph, Lonnie Walker, Quade Green and Louis King among others) are this effusive in their praise of his impact on the entire game:

“Cam is the most complete player I’ve ever seen. He has a chance to be one of the best to ever play the game” - Westtown High coach Seth Berger.

“Cam is the full package, he has a chance to be one of the best ever to play this game if he focuses on the important details of the game and competes. He’s going to school with great tradition that will only allow him to compete. He is a work in progress with a whole lot of talent” - Team Final coach Aaron Burt.

 

[Slap the Floor]

His high school coach is not good.

 

[rome8180]

How much Reddish have you actually watched? I don't claim to have seen a lot, but here are two games. There are plenty more on Youtube.




He actually looks better in the game from 2016 than 2017. In the 2017 game, he's practically non-existent. Again, he doesn't do anything "bad," he just doesn't do much. This jibes with the criticism of multiple high-level scouts. Many say they don't like the 2018 class at all, so being #4 in his class may not be equivalent to being #4 in the previous one.

 

[Slap the Floor]

Reddish would have a very difficult time adjusting to a Bob Hurley Sr or Kevin Boyle practice. He would get thrown out multiple times. He would of course be better for it, but as it currently stands, there will need to be a 'breaking in' period the coaches at Duke will have to put Cam Reddish through.

It's not a big worry for me, but the reality certainly exists. Cam Reddish is very talented, and he seems like a good kid, so I'm not worried about him eventually up his effort level in practice games once he's consistently pushed and coached well.

 

[2001Dukechamps]

Rome, I've watched both games (then decided to watch Bagley's entire game against Hale, and noticed he had a few late game possessions that disgusted me more than anything I witnessed from Cam in both games)

Moreover, a sample size of a few games didn't change my opinion - which is more influenced by his complete statistical profile, elite physical tools, his natural ability to navigate PnR and his performances against high level competition.

 

[rome8180]

Bagley jumps off the screen at you in most of the games I've seen. His talent level is ridiculous, as is his effort level. But like you, I've been a little worried by what I've seen from him in late games. He pretty much cost his team the game in a couple of them.

 

[cameron06]

I'm glad he's on this team. This is my final straw with a Coach K coached defense. If he can't produce a good one with the pieces in place to have a good defensive team, then we probably won't ever have one again with him coaching.

If you want a great defensive team then you may as well get off the OAD bandwagon. Teaching 18 year olds how to playdefense is difficult especially when they have one foot out the door. Kids are either going to already be great at defense or they aren't going to be at Duke most likely.