Duke Recruiting General Discussion

[rhfarmer]

You have come to wrong board if you want to rag on Vrank. Vrank is better than Bolden in almost every statistical category. He shot better from the floor and the line, grabbed far more offensive and defensive rebounds; went to the line more often than Bolden; Had more assists, fewer turnovers, HALF as many fouls and scored only 4 fewer points on the season, while playing 2/3 the minutes Bolden played.

Vrank is better. He should be playing.

 

[childress22]

Axes is totally right. How guys are rated at 17-18 high school performers by guys who may or may not have seen all of them play is far more important than what they do on the court.

 

[sjsj2448]

You have come to wrong board if you want to rag on Vrank. Vrank is better than Bolden in almost every statistical category. He shot better from the floor and the line, grabbed far more offensive and defensive rebounds; went to the line more often than Bolden; Had more assists, fewer turnovers, HALF as many fouls and scored only 4 fewer points on the season, while playing 2/3 the minutes Bolden played.

Vrank is better. He should be playing.

I didn't say anything about Bolden. Frankly I think Bolden is terrible at the moment but have a tiny bit of hope given his size.

I'm saying bringing in a Bagley-esque big like Carey is what we need to do.

I want to be the absolute overwhelming favorite every year. I want Kentucky fans to be envious and cry themselves to sleep at night thinking about their inevitable defeat.

 

[rome8180]

I don't give a shit about what UK fans think.

Vrank has performed extremely well every time he is on the court. I admit that DeLaurier is less of a known quantity right now, but I don't think that projecting him to be a good role player in year 3 is much of a stretch. He's 6'10 -- probably taller -- extremely athletic, both in vertical leap and in side-to-side agility, and was efficient when he was on the court. It's not like I am projecting him to be Bagley (if Bagley is indeed as good as you think, which there's some reason to doubt). I am projecting him to be something MORE VALUABLE but also more likely. I am projecting him to be someone who understands the defensive system and doesn't need touches to be willing to do the unglamorous but necessary things related to winning. In other words, I am projecting him to be Lance Thomas. Our system is always going to be perimeter oriented, and guess what? It should be. Your size-queen masturbation sessions aside, a perimeter-oriented team with rebounding rim protectors makes far more sense in the modern game than what you think we need.

This isn't a video game. You don't plug in as many high-ranked freshmen as possible and get the best result.

And I'm not even going to touch your contention that "X would have played more if he deserved to, because K is the Master blah blah blah." There are countless examples in K's program of less efficient players playing over better ones. Heck, Bolden last year played more than a superior Vrank.

 

[torontoduke]

That was a great post Rome. Devils need development from Vrank, Javin & Tucker to grow with the program and become important team role players.

 

[sjsj2448]

Having a massive advantage in the paint worked pretty well for us in 2015. And he was a freshmen to boot. And we had a freshman at the point.

And I'm not favoring interior play over guard play, anyway, for the record. I'm just in favor of having the maximum amount of talent possible.

Luckily Coach K has the killer instinct from Chicago and agrees with me. Otherwise we wouldn't have gone after Bagley and wouldn't be going after Zion and other bigs. I'm sure you'd have been fine with just Wendell + Vrank + Javin + Bolden for this season.

This isn't 1950. We're not recruiting young men who aspire to be doctors and teachers. It's semi-pro sports at its highest level.

 

[DurhamSon]

AxeS24 I lean more on the "accumulate as much talent as possible" side of the spectrum compared to most posters here, but at some point what difference does it really make when we're looking at one year windows? Just think of it like, how highly rated would a 21 year old Javin be if he were a 17 year old high school senior; he's not, but he might as well have the same impact the next year for the Duke program.

 

[rhfarmer]

You have come to wrong board if you want to rag on Vrank. Vrank is better than Bolden in almost every statistical category. He shot better from the floor and the line, grabbed far more offensive and defensive rebounds; went to the line more often than Bolden; Had more assists, fewer turnovers, HALF as many fouls and scored only 4 fewer points on the season, while playing 2/3 the minutes Bolden played.

Vrank is better. He should be playing.

I didn't say anything about Bolden. Frankly I think Bolden is terrible at the moment but have a tiny bit of hope given his size.

I'm saying bringing in a Bagley-esque big like Carey is what we need to do.

I want to be the absolute overwhelming favorite every year. I want Kentucky fans to be envious and cry themselves to sleep at night thinking about their inevitable defeat.

Duke were overwhelming favourites last year. I know you didn't say anything about Bolden, but bringing in another 5 star big to be gift wrapped a starting spot ahead of a player, Vrank, who has put in the time and shown his value is just a huge waste. If Vrank and Javin were graduating, then yeah, bring in a 5 star.

 

[sjsj2448]

Duke were overwhelming favourites last year. I know you didn't say anything about Bolden, but bringing in another 5 star big to be gift wrapped a starting spot ahead of a player, Vrank, who has put in the time and shown his value is just a huge waste. If Vrank and Javin were graduating, then yeah, bring in a 5 star.

I say you never stop recruiting and bring in the best you possibly can. The rest will work itself out. I don't think Vrank or Javin should be "gifted" a starting spot for putting in time and working hard. I can work hard on my physique all day but I'm never going to attract girls like Brad Pitt would. Such is life.

 

[aiw]

AxeS24 I lean more on the "accumulate as much talent as possible" side of the spectrum compared to most posters here, but at some point what difference does it really make when we're looking at one year windows? Just think of it like, how highly rated would a 21 year old Javin be if he were a 17 year old high school senior; he's not, but he might as well have the same impact the next year for the Duke program.

spectrum

 

[DurhamSon]

AxeS24 I lean more on the "accumulate as much talent as possible" side of the spectrum compared to most posters here, but at some point what difference does it really make when we're looking at one year windows? Just think of it like, how highly rated would a 21 year old Javin be if he were a 17 year old high school senior; he's not, but he might as well have the same impact the next year for the Duke program.

spectrum

A continuum, if you will.

 

[rome8180]

Having a massive advantage in the paint worked pretty well for us in 2015. And he was a freshmen to boot. And we had a freshman at the point.

And I'm not favoring interior play over guard play, anyway, for the record. I'm just in favor of having the maximum amount of talent possible.

Luckily Coach K has the killer instinct from Chicago and agrees with me. Otherwise we wouldn't have gone after Bagley and wouldn't be going after Zion and other bigs. I'm sure you'd have been fine with just Wendell + Vrank + Javin + Bolden for this season.

This isn't 1950. We're not recruiting young men who aspire to be doctors and teachers. It's semi-pro sports at its highest level.

Yes, I would have.

As for the rest of it, I just disagree with your definition of talent and your theories of how to maximize team success. DSon summed it up. A 21-year-old Javin may not be as attractive to the NBA as a 17-year-old player X with a highlight reel of fancy dunks set to sick Anno Domani beats, but that doesn't mean they are less valuable on the court and in the context of a team sport. Your video game approach is simplistic as fuck.

 

[SeanMayTriedToEatMe]

Just to clarify, everyone here is on board with recruiting Vernon Carey as hard as possible (I think). However, Duke should absolutely still be the clear cut preseason #1 if they have top 10 recruits at every position except center and the center rotation is junior DeLaurier and senior Vrankovic. It might even be better that way than playing Carey along with 4 offensive stud freshmen, since those old guys will almost definitely play better team defense than freshman Carey and offense created by centers is basically not part of basketball anymore.

 

[rome8180]

Just to clarify, everyone here is on board with recruiting Vernon Carey as hard as possible (I think). However, Duke should absolutely still be the clear cut preseason #1 if they have top 10 recruits at every position except center and the center rotation is junior DeLaurier and senior Vrankovic. It might even be better that way than playing Carey along with 4 offensive stud freshmen, since those old guys will almost definitely play better team defense than freshman Carey and offense created by centers is basically not part of basketball anymore.

Axes, you are free to reply to my posts if you wish. But I'll just refer you back to this post in lieu of all future responses.

 

[Pantone287]

Yeah, OAD bigs + Coach K defense is generally not a recipe for success. Upperclass Javin + Vrank is basically as perfect of a Duke frontcourt as you can hope for.

What does Duke need from its bigs? Anchor and captain the defense, protect the rim from penetration, rebound, screen, finish, probably in that order. Freshmen bigs are generally not going to come in and do all that well in year one in K's silly scheme.

Given what we've seen from those two guys so far - and from how Duke's bigs have historically performed and improved over time - it's reasonable to project that they'll do these things well as upperclassmen. Much more reasonable than projecting that a OAD big will come in and do those things at a higher level.

 

[rhfarmer]

Javin and Vrank aren't being "gifted" anything. They are literally outplaying Bolden based on the data from actual basketball games. If anything they are getting fucked because it's a bad look to other potential OAD's to see a lower ranked recruit play over a higher one.

 

[torontoduke]

They are and will be team players. The 'little' things they can bring (D, screens and communication from the back line) are key.

Javin needs to stay out of foul trouble.

 

[sjsj2448]

Just to clarify, everyone here is on board with recruiting Vernon Carey as hard as possible (I think). However, Duke should absolutely still be the clear cut preseason #1 if they have top 10 recruits at every position except center and the center rotation is junior DeLaurier and senior Vrankovic. It might even be better that way than playing Carey along with 4 offensive stud freshmen, since those old guys will almost definitely play better team defense than freshman Carey and offense created by centers is basically not part of basketball anymore.

I don't disagree with this. I just disagree with relying on Javin at the 4 and Vrank at the 5 for 30 minutes each. I don't think the three perimeter guys are enough to achieve what we all want. I want one more piece.

 

[Topher]

Duke would be soooo good if they ran a Javin/Vrank frontline with Reddish/Barrett/Jones

I'd fucking jizz

 

[torontoduke]

Just try not to get any in our eyes, ok?